Is my PSD File To Large?

[Jp_508]

I created a PSD for real estate photos & marketing that I reuse over and over again. Just recently started having an issue upon opening. The 'Adjustment' panel at the top right does not populate, then after a few seconds the PSD shuts down & crashes. It keeps doing this over & over when trying to open. However, when I open again, same response, the 'Adjustment' panel is not populating, but if I put my mouse pointer over 'Adjustment' & click once it will populate after a few seconds & I'm able to use the PSD.

I do real estate photography & built my photo editing pc. Everything is up to date, Windows 11, Lr & Ps, etc...The pc operates great no other issues just with Ps. I've created a PSD for real estate that happens to be a bit large, 775MB's. The PSD has many grouped items that overlay on top of other layers for advertising's, banners, headers, post cards, mailings, RE symbols, informational windows, etc... The bottom group is labeled 'Images' & I have approx 20 large RE photos (3000x2000, approx 7mb's ea.) so if someone contacts me for price changes, mailings, or postcards at a click I can shift from selection to another, deselect the image I last saved & select the new image. I usually have 10 images but recently its grown to 20. 

I've also disabled my plug-ins, Lumenzia & TK Luminosity MasK, still crashes. As for my 'C' Drive, I have 670GB free of 930GB. My PC specs: ASUS B660i, i7-12700k, EVGA GTX 1650 Super (Studio Driver), Windows 11 Home, Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB DDR5 (2x32) 64GB 5200MHz, Samsung 980 Pro PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 SSD ('C' Drive), Samsung 980 Pro PCIe 4.0 NVMe M.2 SSD ('D' Drive) Internal, Corsair H100i Elite AIO, Corsair PSU SF750

So my back to my question, is my PSD to large of a file to open, is there a limit size & that's why its crashing? 

Any help would be appreciated, Thanks for reading my post.

[ThioJoe · Accepted solution]

PSD Files do have a size limit, but it's about 2GB if I recall, so that shouldn't be it. Even still, there is an alternative ".psb" format that removes this limit that you could try. Just do File > Save As > Large Document Format (*.PSB). From my understanding it's effectively the same as PSD but just allows bigger file sizes.

It's possible that could help if you're running into some kind of other limit to the PSD file format not related to file size, and also assuming the PSB format is better to handle such a limit (if that's even the case). So I'm not sure if it will help but it's the first thing I'd try.

Next I'd look through this article about performance: https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/kb/optimize-photoshop-cc-performance.html

Or this one specifically about some performance preferences which might be easy to test changing first: https://helpx.adobe.com/photoshop/using/performance-preferences.html

For example I'd probably take a look at the cache levels setting first:

Cache levels

For finer control, specify cache levels manually; the default value is 4.

• If you use relatively small files—roughly 1 megapixel or 1280 by 1024 pixels—and many layers (50 or more), set Cache Levels to 1 or 2. Setting Cache Levels to 1 disables image caching; only the current screen image is cached.
• If you use files with larger pixel dimensions—say, 50 megapixels or larger—set Cache Levels higher than 4. Higher cache levels speed up redrawing.

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[Jp_508]

Thanks for the response, I did select the Large Document Format. Early on it said file was to large & had to go bigger. I just made a copy of the PSD file & deleted half the images. Now it opens and the Adjustment panel populates. Tried it about 3-4 times making sure it wasn't just a one time thing, seems to have done the trick, however I will look into it further because I have to be able to keep those images in play and not have to delete them after each use. I will look at the other suggestions you mentioned tomorrow when I have the time. Thanks for responding. jp 

[Stephen Marsh · Accepted solution]

If you constantly reuse a template file, removing and placing or pasting in new images, you may find that photoshop:DocumentAncestors metadata builds up to excessive levels, bloating the file size.

https://prepression.blogspot.com/2017/06/metadata-bloat-photoshopdocumentancestors.html

[Jp_508]

Thanks for your input. I created a 'copy template' to experiment with. I have changed some settings in 'Preferences' and so far so good. I checked out your link & its a deep dive. All suggestions say 'Use at your own risk' this is scary. I'm technical to a point but this may go deeper then I feel comfortable doing at this time. If I mess something up I run the risk of losing all my 'Actions' that I've created, Ps not working properly, & possibly having to re-install & create everything again. What I've done up to this point seems to work, so I think I'll run with that until the problem returns. Thanks again for your response.  

[Stephen Marsh]

I checked out your link & its a deep dive. All suggestions say 'Use at your own risk' this is scary.

By @Jp_508

Not really scary, it's a standard disclaimer.

If I mess something up I run the risk of losing all my 'Actions' that I've created, Ps not working properly, & possibly having to re-install & create everything again.

By @Jp_508

Why so?

[Jp_508]

I would only assume I could delete something I wasn't suppose to by accident & Ps would have problems operating properly. For the time being it seems to be stable & running fine.

I did change my RAM settings in 'Preferences' from 60% to 75% plus Cache from 2 to 6. I've tested it with no issues. If it presents itself again & I can't fix it I might give it a try, I would have nothing to lose at that point.

My Motto in life has always been, if it ain't broke don't fix it. I have your response saved in a file and I can always come back to this post to refresh myself. Appreciate your advice, all info is helpful in the 'Fix It Toolbox'.

[Stephen Marsh]

I would only assume I could delete something I wasn't suppose to by accident & Ps would have problems operating properly.

By @Jp_508

That is not the case. The scripts in question should only delete photoshop:DocumentAncestors metadata entries, nothing more. It is advised to work on copies as a precaution, just in case.

Did you go to File >  File Info > Raw Data to see what was reported for the template file?

[Glenn 8675309]

PSD files are limited to 2GB in size.  Why?  Compatibililty with other programs.   This is also the figure given when talking about the pixel dimension of 30,000 x 30,000.

PSB files are limited to 300,000 x 300,000 pixel dimension and 4.2 Billion Gigabytes ( 4 exabytes ).   My personal feeling about psb files is that if you are using them you simply are doing something wrong.  

I have a monopoly game board I have been working on and off with forr the past 4 years.   345 layers, and only about 103MB in size, it's nothing special but it opens up pretty quickly.

I glanced at you specs of your computer, and I think I know what your issue is:   Your video card.  It only has 4 GB of ram- you have great system ram, but computationally that 4 GB  of ram on your video card is could turn out to be a bottleneck. 

Check out your graphics settings in your preference file---Every once in  while after an update it seems that some things in the preference file get reset to their default values- it doesn't happen that much but it does happen. 

A killer: really no reason to go above 300 ppi- unless you are making poster sized graphics. 
For a poster you can drop it down to even 150 ppi and it will look great- why?   A person doesn't view a poster from 1 foot away.   Typical billboards along a highway?  Only about 60 ppi- which is fine because the billboard is viewed from a distance.

[Jp_508]

I think you may be onto something-bottleneck! That never crossed my mind since I've never had any issues with blending multiple images for RE photos. I'll have to give that a closer look. Thanks for your thoughts. 

Wow, 345 layers for a Monopoly Game board, that's gotta be something to see!

[Glenn 8675309]

It's military related.   Army guys will get it.   Trying to get it all done by OCT 1st to get it set up for christmas sales.

[Glenn 8675309]

I also installed a RTX 3060 with `12 GB of ram- made a world of difference.

[Jp_508]

That looks pretty good, I see why it's geared for military personnel. Pretty cool! I can't imagine the size of your layers panel. The most I've had open at one time is about 25, & I know how much space that took up on my monitor. Just the magnitude of 345 layers blows me away. 

In 'Preferences' I changed my RAM usage from 60% to 75% (I stopped short of the 85% they said I could use) & Cache from 2 to 6 & that seems to have corrected my issue for now. I tested it and all is operating & functioning as intended. So good so far! 

I'll keep that in mind, expanding my card to a RTX 3060. My build is in an ITX case. So I'd need to find a card that would fix properly if & when that time comes. I had this huge ATX glass tower on my desk, Corsair Obsidian 500D seems like forever & decided to go sff. Gives me more desk space & found that I like the smaller form factor build, it's more challenging.  

[Jp_508]

I wanted to update you on my Ps Issue. You mentioned bottleneck, I do have another custom open air pc build I completed earlier this year that I did install a RTX 3060.  

PC Specs:

Streacom DA6 XL, ASUS Z690i, i9-13900k, RAM DDR5 5600, GPU ASUS GeForce Dual RTX 3060-012-V2, 

C-Drive Samsung 990PRO 1TB, Storage Samsung 990PRO 2TB, Windows 11 Home, Corsair Dominator Titanium DDR5 64GB, Corsair PSU SF750, Alphacool Eisblock XPX Pro Aurora Full Brass-Chrome CPU Water Block, Alphacool Rise Flat Reservoir D5 w/VPP755 Pump, Alphacool 280mm Radiator V.2, NexXxoS ST30 Full Copper, be quiet 2 - 140mm Fans, Keyboard Corsair K60 TKL

I was already into my build when the heating & instability issues raised its ugly head. Did the bios updates right after installing my OS. I use this pc for editing purposes only, its not my daily. I should use it more often... Anyway I can open the PSD file without any issues or lag, Adjustments panel opens quickly & populates. It hasn't crashed upon opening. It's still a large file (RAW Data) & I plan to attempt to erase it when I have the time. Stephen Marsh mentioned creating a script (he provided) that can do that, however I've never done anything like that before & now watching YT videos as to how to proceed moving forward. Instructions are a bit confusing but making some headway. I do believe there are 2 contributing factors, (1) Bottleneck & (2) Large RAW Data file. If I had more then 4 gb ram the file size wouldn't be an issue. Sometimes the file open correctly and sometime it doesn't, if I wait more then 5-7 seconds it crashes. Once open I click on the file at the top right (Adjustments) & it populates as it should. 

As far as adding mutiple layers & images it works fine, just crashes once in awhile when trying to populate the Adjustments panel. I can use it all day without any issues.  

[Stephen Marsh]

@Jp_508 

Please post a screenshot of of your File > File info: Raw Data tab/window.

It is not yet confirmed that you actually have excessive metadata which would be addressed with one of the scripts previously mentioned.

P.S. An alternative to a script to retain a layered file without metadata is to select all layers/groups in the layers panel, then use Layer > Duplicate: New Document which will recreate the document structure in a new file without carrying over metadata as would be the case if you simply duplicated the image to a new document. Save the PSD and compare the file size. No need to use a script if you are not comfortable doing so.

[Jp_508]

I did as you mentioned, selected all layers/groups then Layer>Duplicate>New Document. It didn't change a thing, file size was the same, 420mb's. It duplicated & kept the Raw Data file intact. 

As for the script, working on understanding which program needed/best for this. I've researched & thus far Extendscript Debugger Extension for VS Code, works best with Adobe. Been on YT & videos are quite old, the newest is about 3 yrs ago. I just need to download & give it a whirl, if I screw it up or it doesn't work all I have to do is unenable the script & back to square one. Finding the time to play around with this isn't easy at the moment, lots on my plate. SCRIPTS - Just something new to learn, if I can build pc's I can figure out Scripts....eventually!

I know a file size can be up to 2GB's, & 420MB's sure falls way within reach, I think it might be the GPU bottlenecking, the 1650 only has 4GB of ram, whereas my other pc has a 3060 with 12GB ram & handles it with no problem. If this is the case & a script remedies the issue that would be the best alternative.  The Images Group is where all the large files are, upwards of 20 + shots like in the one I provided. All are RE listings with verbiage that changes weekly due to price changes &/or postcards, hence the need to keep images & not re-enter the image when needed.  

Here's the file, as you can see if you scrowl down it keeps going for awhile, total PSD File Size is 420mb.   

[Stephen Marsh]

You don't have excessive photoshop:DocumentAncestors metadata bloat.

[Jp_508]

At first it looked like a lot but after reading posts & under 2GB file size I thought it was ok, but I'm no expert, that's why I'm here on the forum.. Still don't know why I'm having an issue. I checked for a driver update & my GPU had one so I installed the newest one...same problem. Everything is up to date, Windows 11, Lr, Ps, GPU, & no viruses. Pc otherwise is running fine. I even disabled my plug-ins thinking it was the problem. Running out of options here. I can only surmise that I have a graphics card (1650 4GB Ram) that is not powerful enough & when I open Ps, just before it shuts down, I click on the Adjustments tab & it populates is going to have to be my work around. Runs fine after that. I just shot a property & edited 50 raw images (workflow Lr>Ps>Lr) & all working great, no lag issues, all layers load quickly & blend smoothly. At the time of my build that card was ok to use, however I think Ps has become more graphics dependent. I have a 3060 in my other pc & I have no issue. Thanks for your input on this but I believe I'm at a dead-end at this point. Any other thoughts let me know,