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NEF file fraud

Forum|Forum|4 years ago
September 22, 2021
7 replies
8542 views

I have two paths / curves which are side by side and I stroked the one on the right. I increase that stroke to 100 ... and then I see the stroke show behind the non stroked curve on the left. Does this mean that the image I traced was designed multi-layered and the image which has the stroke showing behind (left) was actually the top layer in the original photo. I am trying to use illy to determine the true make-up of the original photo.

This issue is very important and your answer may be helpful in a Law Matter. I have post a picture which shows strokes on the wall to the right of the dresser yet it strokes through. Thank you

subject renamed by moderator for clarity (was Strokes question for)

Cross-app workflows

This topic has been closed for replies.

Correct answer davescm

You really need to be careful here.

You refer to a legal issue, and fraud. Advice over the internet is not going to stand up under scrutiny and if you attempted to use it and refer to then the people trying to give you advice could be dragged into a legal wrangle.

It is for that reason that we do not engage in posts such as requests to deblur vehicle registration plates.

Take the advice given by several posters and engage a professional forensic service.

Dave

davescm

Community Expert

This thread is now straying well away from the purpose of the forums, which is to provide help and advice on using Adobe's applications. It is also in danger of exposing forum members to potential legal issues, based on opinions given here on what might or might not have happened with specific images.

For those reasons I have locked the thread.

Dave

L

Lumigraphics

Legend

There is no way we can tell you with any certainty what happened to these photos. You need to have the police or a professional investigator look into this. I believe this is a misuse of the forum.

D

defaultw4x9l13t6pt5Author

Participating Frequently

Thnks for your response but I have received some very good advice from this forum and I am taking that advice seriously. All it takes is one person with more knowledge and the willingness to weigh in to help. I am grateful to those who have reached out positively. I don't believe this a misuse of the forum by asking advice from people familiar with Adobe photoshop / Illustrator. After all, photoshop is one of the top programs used by professionals to investigate crimes like this and I see no reason why I should look elsewhere when the best place in the world to ask for advice and tips etc is the Adobe professionals from around the world. It is unfortunate that there is always a few who believe that they own the forum or who beleive that their position supercedes others.

This forum reminds people that there are always people willing to help people no matter the cause. I do not wish to hear from anyone that isn't interested in this challenge. I do appreciate your views though.

davescm

Correct answer

Community Expert

You really need to be careful here.

You refer to a legal issue, and fraud. Advice over the internet is not going to stand up under scrutiny and if you attempted to use it and refer to then the people trying to give you advice could be dragged into a legal wrangle.

It is for that reason that we do not engage in posts such as requests to deblur vehicle registration plates.

Take the advice given by several posters and engage a professional forensic service.

Dave

D

defaultw4x9l13t6pt5Author

Participating Frequently

Thank you for your adive Dave but I am not able to enlist professional services for a number of reasons. One of the reasons is it is too expensive and too impersonal. I have managed to learn in these few posts from users here at Abobe Community many things I have not known and I am enjoying the curve.

I am getting great answers here and will continue to do so. So thanks for your advice!

Stephen Marsh

Community Expert

Have you engaged the services of a professional digital imaging foresnsics expert? If not you should.

D

defaultw4x9l13t6pt5Author

Participating Frequently

To the people at the Adobe Community,What your seeing here in the photos I
have presented is one of the worst frauds and attacks of a 'Black Home' in
Canada's history. For years people have been afraid to assist due to the
racial aspect of this crime. Many others have been supportive but did not
have image knowledge and could not offer any assistance in the area I see
coming from within the Adobe Community. There have been many people who
have suffered as a result of this fraud, and although it has been over 10
years since this fight began ...... In less than one week we heard from
someone named Anna who offered some words that gave us strength when we
were on our knees and also in this very week the RCMP / Police have agreed
to meet with us as well.

I am so overwhelmed that I barely believe this is happening. I believe the
pictures I present here (Link) were edited using Photoshop / Illustrator
and possibly Gimp and Inkscape. In my whole life I have never been able to
afford Photoshop or Illustrator and if I could've, then perhaps I would've
seen the power and willingness to help from the Adobe Community. If any
one of the pictures is deemed fraud and we can prove it in such a way that
others can see it too....We get our lives back!

I thank you.

All pictures shown are fraudulent:
https://share.icloud.com/photos/0HXIegkXucmFc7JjVld-DKykQ

If you have any issues with the link please let me know ASAP as this a
first time for me.

D Fosse

Community Expert

I'm trying to get up to speed and don't really know what I'm supposed to look for here.

Note: I think this should be handed over to a professional forensic service. These are just my immediate observations.

But the metadata present in these jpegs give some clues. Two examples:

In both cases it's consistent with the actual scene in the photos. Focal length, shutter speed/aperture, and flash firing. Note that if metadata says the flash fired, it's the built-in camera flash unit or a mounted on-camera flash. If this was shot on a repro table, you'd need to use remote flash triggering either from the hot shoe or the flash sync outlet, and that shows as flash not fired in metadata.

As for the images themselves, they are of good technical quality and sharpness, and I see no sign of second-generation repro. Getting a good result out of that is in fact very difficult and the first casualty is usually the contrast curve, which will require extensive tweaking to look natural.

I know. This probably isn't very helpful.

Anna Lander

Inspiring

1. If the photo has JPG format, it can't be layered. It is possible only for TIFF or PSD formats.
2. There are (at least, visible) 4 big spots and 1 path that seems to be non-stroked. Are these spots paths? Did you apply brushes or strokes?

Please, mark the part of the image you interested in, Now your question is a bit unclear.

Jacob Bugge

Community Expert

defaultw,

As I (mis)understand it, you have some black paths round the selected one with straight segments, including one to the right.

However, the spine and the Anchor Points of the unstroked path will appear fully visible whether it is above or beneath the other one. The only way you can see directly whether it is on top is to give it a bright (such as yellow) stroke which will show on top of the black one if on top. But that only reflects the stacking order of the paths in the Image/Live Trace which can also be seen in the Layers panel (after expansion).

And in any case, the stacking order of non overlapping paths created by tracing reveals nothing about layers in imagery traced.

And in any case, a photo only consists of a single layer of pixels, as does a JPEG file. It is possible to edit/change/manipulate a JPEG file in different applications, including Photoshop, applying different layers and thereby producing multi layered imagery. But saved as a JPEG, those layers will be destroyed leaving only one layer of pixels, all information of underlying parts deleted.

So I am afraid that any editing of an original photo can only be revealed/proved by (your having access to) the actual file in the editing application.

D

defaultw4x9l13t6pt5Author

Participating Frequently

Thank you for responding. I am investigating a .NEF fraud and since iLLY cannot open an nef, the file is converted to jpg by default. Let me try my question is the following way....

1. I trace the jpg and then expand it to make the paths editable

2. I select anything (paths / Curves) that turns blue while mousing over the image. I am unclear of the difference between paths and curves. If I select something in the expanded image and it turns BLUE....is it a path or a curve?

3. I apply a stroke and choose 100 width. when I do so the stroke sometimes appears to generate itself under areas which I did not intend to stroke and some times the stroke expands beyond the boundind box of the image itself.

4. My question is: If I expand a stroke and it appears under another area in the photo, does that mean or indicate that the original photo was edited with an app that can produce layers, such as photoshop. Thanks