Photoshop 10bit support

[Guest]

Hello!

There are 16 and 32bit modes in PS, so my question is: can PS display 10bit color depth per channel if all other components support it? (i.e. Windows 7, ATI FirePro graphics card,10bit monitor connected via Displayport)

If not, will there be an update/plugin? Will the next version of PS support it?

I'm thinking about upgrading. Wouldn't make much sense if the software doesn't support it…

Thanks in advance

Hermann

[Chris Cox]

We're working on a list of known good video cards and such, but the list keeps changing.

Also, what we've been TOLD works hasn't quite matched customer experience, so we're having to do a lot more testing.

And some of what we've tested, apparently hasn't made it to end users yet.

[emaini]

I understand.  Thank you

[Chris_BC_1]

Chris,

I was hoping for some new updates.  Any info on 10 bpp support on cards other than the Quadro or FirePro workstations cards would be greatly appreciated.  Even if it's just links to other sites that you feel might have good info.

I just upgraded from CS3 to CS5, and I finally sprung for a Dell 30" monitor, in this case the 10 bpp capable U3011.  I have an Nvidia 8600 GT based card from XFX right now so I'm looking for an upgrade.  The FirePro V4800 is available for about $160 and indicates full 10 bit support all the way through.  ATI also provides step by step instructions showing how to make it work in their driver and then in CS5.

My concern is that the V4800 workstation card may not be the highest performance option all the way around for me to use.  (I don't do gaming right now but would like to keep that possibility open.)  Any info on performance would also be appreciated.  Even if in informal tests you've done at Adobe.  ATI lists this card as for entry level on Photoshop even though it has 1GB of GDDR5, and as part of their description they mention smaller files and lower resolutions.  (The "mid level" FirePro V5800 has the same RAM {and standards support, e.g. Open GL 3.2} but 800 stream processors instead of 400, and it's over twice the cost at around $400 and that's a good bit more than what I want to pay.) I'm going to be editing RAW files from an EOS 7D (as well as older ones from an EOS 40D) and my thought is that they would qualify as large.  I can edit them now with the 8600 GT card but I did notice a big slowdown in CS5's response when I went from 1920x1200 to the 2560x1600 of the Dell U3011.  My goal is to get the performance above that I had before and at the same time get the 10 bpp display capability.

Feel free to put whatever disclaimers you want on any info you can provide, but please let me know what you think of the V4800, and also what other options in the non-workstation card you have "confirmed" to work.  Also note that preliminary info on stuff coming is fine as well. Specifics would be great.

I'm already in contact with XFX and so far have received contradictory info.  The first tech said only a workstation card would do 10 bpp, but then a 2nd tech came back and said their Radeon cards with DisplayPort would do it as well.  I replied back to request a confirmation (asking for some specs and/or a technical document) but have yet to get a response.

Thanks in advance for your help, and thanks to Adobe for pushing the envelope to bring us better performance.

[Hudechrome]

Chris, one thing I have learned in all this searching is to find a supplier that will give you return privileges on such purchases, so that you can try out different models. If locally there is no such option, I have found Amazon to be a great "no questions asked" so long as the packaging is intact and the device operable. I went through a fistfull of DDR3 to get what I wanted. Turnaround time isn't as handy as a walk-in, but it works well.

No matter what we tell you, it's still a crapshoot from the perspective that each PC will have it's own peculiarities so in the final analysis you have to do trials anyway. Just be sure you have a good test routine setup before commencing.

[emaini]

Chris,

Was wondering if there is any more information about 10bit support in terms of know good configs.

I stumbled upon this from EIZO which is stating that these configs work.

Not sure if this is valid, but maybe users with EIZO and AMD GPUs may find this usefull or at least for those with AMD GPUs

http://www.eizo.com/global/support/compatibility/monitors/20.pdf

Posting it because I thought it may help some one.

Unfortunately I have an NVIDIA and NEC monitor and have not found a good/stable/working combo.  I may not have the latest drivers or something but I keep trying.

[Noel Carboni]

PJA Media wrote:

I have Windows 7 desktop configured with Aero themes switched off - So theme is set to 'Windows 7 Basic' (the driver option did not force Aero to switch off as I had previously read)

Just curious...  What's the connection between switching Aero off and the use of 10 bit per channel mode?  Is it a requirement?  Surely there's enough memory for all that in the Video card.

I apologize for not reading the entire thread if this was discussed earlier.

-Noel

[PJA_Media]

Nice to know that the ATI FirePro card is working well, and this is even the case for the cheaper V4800 - I may just take this route now that I returned my nVidia Quadro FX580. Thanks for the info. This is a very informative thread.

Paul A

[Orbidia]

Well, I don't have the 10bit monitor. But I can tell that the Geforce drivers don't support 10bit yet.

I went to the Nvidia Control Panel and according to the Nvidia Geforce driver manual, there should be a "Deep Color" option under:

3D Settings - Manage 3D Settings

Either the Global Settings or Propram Settings Tab should show "Deep Color" option directly under the "CUDA - GPUs" option

But its not there even with the 580gtx card installed and the latest beta 266.35 driver. I suppose MAYBE if I plug in a deep color TV through HDMI or a true 10bit panel through displayport, the option could suddenly appear... But I seriously doubt it.

Luckily I mostly bought this card for CUDA support in Premiere.

Hopefully, this Photoshop 10bit issue gets resolved eventually since Nvidia manual claims it should work in the manual!

[emaini]

Hopefully you will be able to see the image, I am told, the drivers for the Quadros have the following.  Under Manage 3D Settings, you should have a Force 10 bits per component.  That preset must be selected.  This is from PNY tech support.  I have purchased a Quadro 2000 which I found cheaper than most GTX cards.  It was temporary out of stock, but once it comes in, I will see what happens.  Otherwise, I am going to switch to the FirePro cards and be done with it.  it seems in all cases, it is not exactly perfect so I am not sure that 10bit is exactly cooked yet.  I believe in regards to 10bit, if you go that path, you are an early adopter and you have to decide if it is worth the trouble.  In the meantime, I love my PA241W

[Orbidia]

There's a new Nvidia 580gtx graphics card with displayport output available on Newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814261095&cm_re=gtx_580-_-14-261-095-_-Product

This is the only gtx 580 with displayport in the USA. Gainward has one available in Europe:

http://www.gainward.com/main/vgapro.php?id=452

There are also finally GTX 570 cards with displayport as well.

All of these should allow good Cuda acceleration in Adobe Premiere and also (eventually) allow for 10bit color support for Photoshop.

Soon, the NEC PA301w 30" monitor with 10bit color support will be available.

It would be really great if the Nvidia driver supports 10bit color from the Geforce display driver. I'm sure this may take some time to work out for the lowly geforce but at least theoretically - the hardware support is finally there. Photoshop supports 10bit, the monitor supports 10bit, Displayport allows 10bit color, but the Nvidia driver is now the only limiation!

Please Adobe, look into this combination and ask Nvidia to release working Geforce drivers for the GTX 580 and 10bit Photoshop support.

Thanks.

[emaini]

@Orbidia,

Would you happen to know if the Quadro 2000 supports 10bit color?  Given that it is less expensive than the GTX 580 and also has dual DisplayPorts.

The NVidia site is lacking and the forums do not help

This document

http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/40049/NV_DS_QUADRO_2000_US_LR.pdf

Says it does, but with NVidia what the PDF says and what the driver does seems to be two different things.

I was planning on getting the Quadro and the PA241W

[Orbidia]

emaini,

I only really know what is in this thread. I did see this document which I only briefly looked at but may have some info:

http://www.nvidia.com/docs/IO/40049/TB-04701-001_v02_new.pdf

Nvidia calls it 30bit color because it is 10bits per color so 10bit Red + 10bit Green + 10bit Blue = 30bit RBG

-

       The quadro cards have a better chance of working than the Geforce cards because the extra money for the cards specifically goes into professional level drivers. But I haven't actually seen anyone say they've gotten 10 bit support in photoshop with any nvidia card yet (I assume 10 bit must work properly with Maya or something since that's the primary purpose of the Quadro cards)... It is supposed to work in photoshop according to Chris Cox but PJA Media in the discussion above has reported it doesn't work with his Quadro as of Nov 10, 2010. Maybe newer Nvidia drivers work?

-

       If you want to gamble and get the Quadro 2000 and the NEC, please write back here with your success or failure so others will know. I wouldn't expect anything to work until someone has done the gamble and then tested and confirmed it or Adobe or Nvidia publishes a list of supported cards/monitors. I'm hopeful that eventually Nvidia will release drivers which allow all their cards with displayport work with 10bit color in photoshop... It's certainly very good that Adobe has done their part of the job and there's only one more small piece of this puzzle. I should probably be writing all of this on Nvidia forums and not Adobe forums but typing "10bit photoshop" into google results in this thread at the top so that's where I posted. C'mon Nvidia - finish the drivers!

-

      When I get a 10bit monitor I will report back if there is 10 bit support from the Palit GTX 580 with displayport I just recieved in the mail. It sure would be nice!

[VMesec5r_]

I'm here to furthur muddy the waters!

I have been looking into using a 10bbp workflow.  After reading this thread I emailed nVidia and Palit about the gtx470, and its potential for using 'deep color'.

Here are the responses I got, both from Palit:

Dear customer

Sorry for the late reply.

From Nvidia's confirmation GTX 470  supports 10bit  per channel.

But not all the output ports on GTX 470  supports  this function.

As I know the displayport on GTX 470  doesn't  support this function.

As for other ports we're still waiting  for Nvidia's  update.

And I'll keep you posted once Nvidia  gives  update.

Thanks.

Followed by:

Dear customer

Nvidia has provided final answer for  your  question.

GTX 470 supports 10bit per channel by  displayport  and HDMI port.

Please be notified thanks.

No info on how to actually use it, of course.

So, for now I'm not bothering.  This is a rare case where I'd be an early adapter, but it seems nobody has their heads on straight about how this should actually work.  So screw it.  I'll be back in a year or two.

Good luck to you all,

-V

[NEC271]

Hello !. I work with Photoshop CS5 x64, Windows 7 x64, ATI FirePro V3800, Nec monitor PA271W (Display Port).

I didn't have any problem about 10 bit support in the past. Now (I just installed Service Pack 1 and update to ACR 6.4) I can't see more 10 bit when I open 10 bit test ramp image in CS5. ATI driver is the last. Settings in CS5 about Open GL are correct.

When I restart Windows after enable 10 bit in ATI Panel, I can see 10 bit activated because Windows bar is not more trasparent but coloured. I open CS5 and 10 bit test ramp image but I see image in 8 bit. Why I can't more view correctly 10 bit test ramp image in CS5?

[Noel Carboni]

ATI's latest drivers (Catalyst 11.3 and 11.4) don't allow Photoshop to use OpenGL operations in Normal and Advanced modes.  ATI knows about it, but they're taking their time to fix it.  Revert to Catalyst 11.2 to regain this functionality, which will involve uninstalling ATI Catalyst entirely first, then installing 11.2.

-Noel

[NEC271]

I reinstalled old driver but same problem, I see in 8 bit mode in CS 5

[Noel Carboni]

Did you reboot after the install of 11.2?  It doesn't make you do so, but it's a good idea.

-Noel

[NEC271]

Which driver do you mean to reinstall?

The last is 8.773.1.1

http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/fire/Pages/fire_win7-64.aspx

Previous are these:

http://support.amd.com/us/gpudownload/fire/previous/Pages/fire_win7-64.aspx

I reinstalled 8.773

[Noel Carboni]

I re-read your original post, and initially I neglected to notice that you have an ATI Fire card, not a Radeon.  So what I said about the latest driver possibly not working with Photoshop might not be pertinent.

Are you seeing OpenGL operation in Photoshop?

-Noel

[NEC271]

Yes OpenGL enabled. Advanced Settings and then Advanced Mode. Everything before driver ATI update. I reinstalled 8.773, i.e previous driver with 10 bit worked for me, but nothing now.

[Guest]

hi!........

the problem is not with ATI drivers,  instead its with PS update to 12.02, 12.03 and so on....

roll back to PS 12.0 and it will work fine..........

[NEC271]

Really??? And does Adobe know this issue? So it's better to wait next PS update.. How can I roll back to 12.0 version?

[Guest]

hi..

yes, I have the same problem as U do, roll back to 12.0 and all works just as before....

just uninstall PS and install again and dont update to new version... (12.01, 12.02 and so on)

(I mada a win backup with ps 12.0 instaled on so I just roll back)

[Chris Cox]

ATI has already said that the problem is in their driver and that they are working on a fix.

[NEC271]

I tried to roll back to previous ATI driver but I can't see 10 bit as I did in the past with same ATI driver (8.773). Now it is 8.773.1.1