Photoshop CC gradient banding

[brooxart]

I've been a using Photoshop for 20 years (as a design professional) and only since I switched to CC a few months ago, I get awful obvious banding when creating gradients. Even in rgb files, which sometimes used to occur in cmyk. Nothing seems to get rid of it, and I'm NOT looking for a noise or blur solution, please, so don't suggest that.

I did the same actions in Adobe 4 which I still have on another computer and it doesn't occur. I hate this. Any suggestions? I have a new latest iMAC so it doesn't seem like that would be the issue.

[Pat481]

I won't disagree without knowing the complexities of the gradient tool etc, but the end result of using this action is an unbanded gradient where as the end result of a gradient in photoshop is often banding.

I notice that other apps seem to do this (clean gradients using dither or noise, anecdote), like apples professional tools (iwork suite, motion etc). I may be completely missing the point here, but I prefer tools that achieve a quality outcome regardless of semantics as opposed to tools that follow engineering principles or rules that are irrelivant to the end user at the expense of quality. But i understand that both approaches have their merits.

[Chris Cox]

The action is more complicated than it needs to be, and converts to 16 bit/channel (which can make banding worse!).

Photoshop's gradients already have dithering to reduce banding. But issues with adjustments, displays, compositing, etc. can introduce more quantization and show banding again if you are not careful.

There is no simple fix beyond knowing what is going on, and adding noise to reduce the appearance of banding.

[Pat481]

Thanks Chris. The 16 bit part of the action is separate option, but I can see that you're right and it does make the banding worse. To your point most of the issues i have with banding are involving adjustments, ill take a look at changing my workflow.

[Noel Carboni]

I'm surprised to see no mention of dithering settings in this thread.

I too would like to try to see or reproduce the problem.

-Noel

[martin_botvidsson]

I switched camera from Canon to Hasselblad. Now I see banding in Photoshop. I use top of the line Eizo monitor.

The strange thing is that all looks fine in Phocus, Lightroom and Camera Raw. See attached screenshot.

What's going on?

PS CC to the left and Camera Raw to the right.

Link the the image: http://www.botvidsson.se/waste/banding.jpg

[Herbert2001]

I opened your jpg in Photoline, and the banding was quit obvious in both versions, until I switched to 16pbc. Then the right version looks much better. In Photoshop CS6 I did not need to switch to 16bpc to see the right version looks better (PS probably uses some internal 16pbc-->8bpc conversion for improved gradients blending).

However, Jpg is the worst format to use for this particular example: a 16bpc png or tiff would give us a better idea of what is going on.

Having said that, the dithering used to reduce banding in the left version seems to be of a lesser quality compared to the version on the right - which would explain the higher quality of the right version.

To create a much better 8bpc version I applied some grain/noise to a 50% grey layer in overlay mode and a layer mask to avoid adding noise in the brighter areas of the image:

www.estructor.biz/testje/banding3.jpg

Can you upload the same image in a 16pbc format?

[Noel Carboni]

OK, I see that you're using the ProPhoto RGB profile.  I've seen some pretty severe banding with that as well, though on a PC system.  I don't know if your Mac might suffer from the same issues...

Try a few experiments to see if what you're seeing is what I've seen.

1.  Convert the profile of the image to sRGB IEC61966-2.1 and see if it clears up.

2.  On the original image with which you're seeing banding, choose Window - Arrange - Float all in Windows and see if when you grab the window and start to move it the problem clears up (Photoshop switches from GPU-based color-management to CPU-based when you do this).

3.  Try configuring your Photoshop - Preferences - Performance, [Advanced Settings...] to "Basic" drawing mode, then Quit and restart Photoshop.  This causes Photoshop to use CPU-based color-management.

-Noel

[dorseymkt]

Was having the same problem - did this (switched Drawing Mode preferences from Advanced to Basic) and it seems to have fixed the issue.

[Idaho Airships, Inc.]

Greetings from Boise. I'm in a big rush so didn't go through all the answers, but have some suggestions (late to the party, I know).

In RGB banding is more likely if you have a dominant hue, such as Blue (which accounts for far less than 10% of any Pixel's Luminance value). Additionally, it is more likely if you are working in 8 bits per Channel: this is due to "Quantization," or the Luminance "steps" between various Channel values. In 8 bits, there is a noticeable difference between, say, 125 and 126. Again, this is most noticeable with a dominant Hue. Human vision is very sensitive to Luminance Deltas (differences).

Work in 16 bits, aRGB (not PPRGB, nor sRGB). I know there are arguments for sRGB, but: http://www.forensicallyfit.net/2012/04/16/argb-srgb-gamut-accuracy-conversion-delta-e/

When you build the Gradient, in the Gradient Dialogue Box ensure that you select adjust the "Smoothness" control up. This will produce a dithering in the Gradient to combat Posterization. Additionally, when you have the Gradient Tool Selected, check your Options ToolBar to ensure that the Dither checkbox is selected.

There are some very clever things you can do like overlaying and averaging Gradient Layers, but I mention that because it is only necessary in extreme cases.

Here's a good exercise: generate a monochromatic (0-255) Linear Gradient without Smoothing and without Dither. Note the shape of the Histogram: it is "platykurtic," meaning that it is very flat and regular.

Now-without changing the Gradient Stops or Colors, apply Smoothing and/or Dither, or both:

Now the Histogram is neither evenly distributed nor smooth. This tells you-primarily-that what amounts to Noise (synthetic value Pixels) are being generated by PS in the background to blend the various Quantization Levels. You will probably not find them objectionable in even large prints. This is a superb way to mitigate "banding."

Finally, you should know about a "gotcha." You'll notice (using your Info Window) that the Pixel Values of a 16 bit Document range from 0-32768, which represents 15 bits, not 16 (which would range from 0-65535). So, you are actually working in 15 bits, but the difference is unimportant to the human eye...unless, like me, you hallucinate a lot. Ahem. Anyway, you are in 15 bits (this is done to accomodate Blending Mode math).

[lehou]

I have the same problem here. I'm using CS5. I run some tests on CC and the same problem occured.

The biggest problem on my side is the banding is visible when it's printed. I use to color Caillou books for years, with different printers from all over the world and the banding problem appears at some places. So I guest it's not a screen problem. Neither a computer or display or graphic card performances. It seems to be a problem with the brushes of Photoshop.

On this example, I've boosted the effect to accentuate the banding problem. I have few more examples like this one, but this one is the most visible.

[Chris Cox · Accepted solution]

It is not a problem - it is a result of having very smooth gradations display or printed on systems with quantization levels (how many bits are displayed/printed) that cause visible banding.

And the solution is always the same: add enough noise to make the banding invisible.

[lehou]

I work on a 8 bits document usually. I might consider using the heavier 16 bits from now on.

So, of what you know, there is no way to create that kind of gradient without adding noise? Sadly this solution brings another problem: the noise.

[Chris Cox]

You need a small amount of noise to break up the banding.

And 16 bit can make the banding worse on output (because you have even smoother data), unless you add noise appropriate for the output to break up the banding.

[gashhead]

I would have thought that seeing as this seems to be a consistent issue many suffer from and have done for years now that it might be addressed at some point by adobe either though a tech demo or sorting out the rendering engine to forward solve the issue. If you are staff++++ then it could be worth putting this to your bosses as there are people out there who clearly suffer from this and could probably be doing better things with their time other than adding noise to everything which is a laughably poor solution. 

[Chris Cox]

If you use an 8 bit/channel image - then Photoshop can only render in 8 bits/channel.

And if your display is 8 bit/channel - then you can only see the image in 8 bits/channel.

No amount of code change will affect that.

[norway_bob]

Sorry, but that's a whole bunch of BS. As usual from Adobe instead of fixing the problem. I have the same PC I used with my CS6 Photoshop, when exporting from Lightroom to PS - no banding whatsoever. I upgarade to CC and I get terrible banding and posterization effect in the shadows. Right, I must be doing something wrong.

[Trevor.Dennis]

I have not read the _entire_ thread, but I think I covered most of it, so I'll add that Have Cache levels set to 1 in Preferences > Performance, can cause visual artefacts. 

[Trevor.Dennis]

You are talking about exactly the same image with the same settings I take it?  Can you show us a screen grab of your Preferences > Performance tab?

[norway_bob]

No, I'm not talking about the same image. I'm talking about exporting an image from Lightroom (where it looks fine) to Photoshop CC, where suddenly all my shadows get posterization and banding in the dark gradients. Never happened in CS6 with earlier version of Lightroom (5.2 I believe). Maybe its the updated version of Camera Raw that are causing this, but I'm not an expert that's why I'm here. Adobe telling people that its the user's fault, when its not just a few people having these problems, is absurd.

[Trevor.Dennis]

So did you check cache levels in the Preferences > Performance tab? 

[norway_bob]

yes I did. no change.

[Images by Nick]

Dear Chris

I, too, am seeing this effect.  I'm running a 2014 iMac with OS-X Mavericks.  The original images was a 16 bit raw file and I processed it at 32 bbp just to avoid any possible rounding errors.  The issue became more exaggerated with I converted from SRGB to ProPhoto RGB; however when I went back and looked at the SRGB image it was there too.  It appeared as a result of the processing I did on the image (color shifts, gaussian blur, second layer combined with multiply, layer mask painted in with a very large soft brush and low flow rate).  Somewhere there's some old 8 bit code lurking in the bowels of Photoshop.  I really hoped it would be in the ProPhoto profile so that I could avoid that; however it seems it's somewhere else.

I'm trying to create a smooth background and the results are totally unacceptable - reminiscent of a coloring by numbers painting!   Since the file is a little large (74Mb) I've posted it here:

http://l1.seth-smith.com/private/banding.tif

Were I using some old junker PC I could accept this as a problem with the machine but since I'm using current hardware from the reference standard manufacturer for photogs and a very recent version of the OS I have to conclude that the issue is yours not theirs.

Please, before throwing out the party line again, look at the image and have your techs look at the code.

Sincerely

Nick Seth-Smith

[Herbert2001]

Wow, that is crazy! When I open your file in Photoline the clouds look smooth. When I open the same file in Photoshop CS6 (stick with embedded prophoto profile) it looks terrible: banding everywhere, as you say.

And I am on Windows 7, btw.

[Tanja2014]

Nick.... the image alone is not much help... can you record an action what you have done and also post the original?

you can not 100% avoid banding in "computer generated gradients" especially when using 8 bit files formats..

when i use the gradient features in photoshop (for masking) i often add noise to them.

i have to battle them quite often because i do a lot of CGI images and perfect computer generated gradients often show banding after some postprocessing.

also when i photograph on a grey background and do postprocessing on these images  i notice that banding becomes quite visible.

even with 16 bit i often notice banding after editing.

part of the problem is sure my monitor as he can only display 8 bit.

bust most people don´t have a 10bit workflow at home.

ps:

adding noise, via the noise filter, is not always the best way to prevent banding.

in fact there is a filter called splatter that works better for avoiding banding in blue skys...for example.

[Herbert2001]

All true enough, but that still does not explain why Nick's 16bit file looks fine in Photoline, and quite dreadful in Photoshop CS6. My screens are colour calibrated (Spyder Pro), and both applications are colour managed (Nick's example file contains a ProPhoto profile).

In principle the visual result should be identical in both applications. But it is not. Photoline looks nice and smooth, while Photoshop resembles indeed something from a paint by numbers painting - severe banding!