Photoshop CC - Rent to Own?

[Guest]

I have been following and commenting on the firestorm of protest about Adobe's switch to a Cloud only subscription.  Many angry users and they all want Adobe to reinstate the status quo.  In my opinion this is just not going to happen.  But like Obama says "never let a good crisis go to waste".  So let the users get behind a compromise that neither side will be happy with, but will work for both.

Besides price, the next biggest complaint is that if you stop your subscription you have nothing.  So my proposal of Rent to Own.  Here is one way to do it.

After 3 years of renting you are entitled to a download of the version of your products that was active 2 years prior.  This download would be a perpetual licence. 

Arguments for the above.

1.  Adobe is not going to give you the current version as is deceases incentive to continue subscription once you have a current version.  So don't beat a dead horse with this argument.   Two years back seems like a good compromise. 

2.  CS6 is also a perpetual licence, but will it work with the then current computers and OS in the future?  Evidence says not likely.  So a 2 year old product should still be OK.

3.  I chose 3 years of rental as that would be more than one would pay in rental to buy the product, if it was offered.  This may be a negotiable point with Adobe.  But if you rent for 10 years, and then retire as a professional photographer, or your interests shift, you need the programs so you can continue working with the images.

4.  The argument that there is no disk for versions, as it is all subscription, is hollow.  They have a product that you download to your computer.  All Adobe needs is a deactivation code so it does not ask for the monthly payment.  All Adobe would have to do is keep the version that was active on January 1 two years ago.

Let the users come up with a compromise, rather than digging in and saying no way, and getting nothing.

[Noel Carboni]

Trevor.Dennis wrote:

If there is one thing that is a dead cert, it's that Adobe's competitors will be making haste to take advantage of the negative response to the CC situation. 

A day or two ago I saw something on the Corel site where they're already advertising that they're all about giving users buying options that other companies aren't.

-Noel

[nahravka]

and some special deal for Adobe users should be out soon

[Crystal Visionary]

Just as there are people who believe Mac is better than PC, there are people who believe Corel is better than Adobe, and it is a lot less expensive.  I expect Corel will make what ever produce improvements it needs to to  be on the same level as Photoshop, if it isn't already, and to start courting unhappy Adobe  users.  There was a time when Corel was more popular than Adobe.  It could happen again. Adobe seems to have gone the way of so many other American publicly traded companies and is looking only at quarterly profits and stock prices at the expense of a long term strategy. I noticed that the trend for their stock over the last year was a steady climb, however it has lost almost $2 per share over the last 5 days.  Of course it is too early to call that a trend, but if it continues, and it will if it looks like a significant number of users are going to stay away from the new pricing scheme, Adobe management will have to re-evaluate their strategy.  The folks at the top most likely have stock options, and share holders will be unhappy.

[Guest]

It might be worth noting that Corel also has a subsctiption version, probably close to model Adobe had 2 weeks ago.  Am sure, for now, Corel will keep the boxed version and watch what Adobe does.

[*Photonic]

Nevada Shooter wrote:

Just as there are people who believe Mac is better than PC, there are people who believe Corel is better than Adobe, and it is a lot less expensive.  I expect Corel will make what ever produce improvements it needs to to  be on the same level as Photoshop, if it isn't already, and to start courting unhappy Adobe  users.  There was a time when Corel was more popular than Adobe.  It could happen again. Adobe seems to have gone the way of so many other American publicly traded companies and is looking only at quarterly profits and stock prices at the expense of a long term strategy. I noticed that the trend for their stock over the last year was a steady climb, however it has lost almost $2 per share over the last 5 days...

In the days of yore I much preferred Corel Photo-Paint over Photoshop versions 3 - 6. It was much easier to use, versatile, and in many ways more intuitive.

Then Corel bought Paint-Shop Pro and threw Photo-Paint in with Corel Draw as a Suite for bunches of $. I didn't need Corel Draw, didn't care for Paint-Shop Pro, so I went over to Photoshop moaning the whole way. I also switched to Mac hoping to lessen the pain.

If there was a Mac version of Corel Draw/Photo-Paint I would consider giving it another go. Especially if they are smart enough to capitalize on this new opportunity by updating and selling Photo-Paint separately again. Their Lightroom equivalent, AfterShot Pro, is already Mac/PC compatible, which would make for a good RAW workflow.

Then there's NIC Software's reputation for innovation, which is now under the HUGE resource umbrella of Google. So we may also see something interesting happen there. Yes, these could be exciting times ahead of us.  There's plenty of life left in PS CS6 for me to ride out the time it will take for competitive products to hit the market. And besides, it's paid for.

[Crystal Visionary]

I did not know that Google now owned Nik Software.  I looked and not only do they own it, but they have drastically reduced the price.  I have been wanting to get Nik but the price was more than I could afford right now, but at $149 for the full suite, I think the time has come to get it.  I know a lot of people that use Photoshop primarily as a gateway to their Nik plugins.  They do all their real work with Nik.  Also, pretty much everyone I know who is serious about HDR uses Photomatix although some people like Niks HDR Efex Pro 2.  The HDR implementation in Photoshop is really not very good, to put it politely.  Like some others here, I have Lightroom 4 and Photoshop CS6.  I can easily wait and see what happens in the market for a long time before I need to get any new software, especially if I get the Nik plugins and possibly Photomatix.

[*Photonic]

Nevada Shooter wrote:

...I know a lot of people that use Photoshop primarily as a gateway to their Nik plugins.  They do all their real work with Nik.  Also, pretty much everyone I know who is serious about HDR uses Photomatix although some people like Niks HDR Efex Pro 2.  The HDR implementation in Photoshop is really not very good, to put it politely.  Like some others here, I have Lightroom 4 and Photoshop CS6.  I can easily wait and see what happens in the market for a long time before I need to get any new software, especially if I get the Nik plugins and possibly Photomatix.

Nik's first step may indeed be to make their plug-ins "stand-alone" products rather than requiring Photoshop. On-One Software has done that with their excellent apps.

I have used all three HDR apps and find Photomatix to generally be the most versatile. Nik HDR Efex has a great interface and workflow. If you shoot image sets handheld, Photoshop HDR excells in de-ghosting. I will de-ghost in PS and render a 32-bit file, then take it over to Photomatix for processing.

With all the radical changes and uncertainty going on with Adobe, and their lack of response to customer concerns, staying with PS CS6 for now makes a lot of sense (if you can resist the CC intro offers). If you are a CS5 user, well, that's a stretch. My advice for PS CS5 users is to upgrade NOW to CS6 before Adobe kills it on their web site. It's already impossible to navigate to the purchase page. You have to get a URL from someone or in one of the threads here in the forums.

Once customers figure out the merits of this option, there may be a stampede to upgrade to CS6, if it's not already happening. That may prompt Adobe to quickly nix that option the second CC debuts. I, for one, have taken that route and upgraded to CS6 this week. FYI: I discovered when installing the CS6 upgrade that I was asked for a CS5 OR CS4 product key. I thought that had ended last March.

[Crystal Visionary]

I have had trouble with Photoshop's de-ghosting creating unacceptable noise in my pictures.

[Noel Carboni]

Nevada Shooter wrote:

I have had trouble with Photoshop's de-ghosting creating unacceptable noise in my pictures.

Can you be more specific about what you mean by "de-ghosting"?

-Noel

[Crystal Visionary]

Noel, I am referring to the "Remove Ghosts" check box in Merge to HDR Pro in Photoshop CS6.

[Noel Carboni]

Ah, thanks.  I never use that feature; I've never seen much merit in it, partially for the reason you've mentioned, and for others.

-Noel

[Crystal Visionary]

I saw an ad today for CorelDraw Graphics Suite X6 for $431.10.

[Noel Carboni]

Notably that doesn't include Paintshop Pro.  I don't know much about the Corel Photo-Paint package that is part of it, nor whether it's any kind of competition to Photoshop.  It's on my list of things to go investigate.

-Noel

[Was DYP]

I am having dreams about Aldus PhotoStyler, as I remember it was one sweet peice of software. Just like Freehand was in comparsion to Illustrator.

[Noel Carboni]

Sounds like what I was suggesting, except I proposed 2 years of rental rather than 3.

Adobe needs to provide an exit strategy.

-Noel

[Dragoro21]

Im just curious on how Adobe wanting to make money is somehow wrong? How bout you complainers go offer your bosses to work for free. I mean, its the right thing to do, right?

[SasquatchPatch]

No one is suggesting you should get the software for free. People are complaining that most users are going to pay more money that they did before, with no choice in the matter. Anyone who wants to continue using most of Adobe's products will be forced into this rent forever program no matter what. Go and read the new terms and agreements for the Creative Cloud. They are the most onerous I've ever seen. Worse that X-Rite at their worse and even worse that Facebook. Unbelievable.

[Greg_Bohn]

sasquatch15 wrote:

No one is suggesting you should get the software for free. People are complaining that most users are going to pay more money that they did before, with no choice in the matter. Anyone who wants to continue using most of Adobe's products will be forced into this rent forever program no matter what...

I would argue that whether people realize it or not, the new subscription only plan is bad for every user in the long run (whether or not it's beneficial for some in the short term).

  At very least, it removes an element of freedom to be able to have a soft-landing if you ever feel that the products are no longer worth the charge. And it removes your ability to decide when the updates are really worth it for you.

  This clearly benefits Adobe far more than most of the users, and Adobe wasn't exactly collapsing for lack of income before the change.

  I'm only one license but I know someone with 4 licenses, and he's as unhappy about developments as I am for the very same reasons.

  So sure, Adobe gets to do what it likes. I'm just not going to happily go along with what's not in my (and I would argue our) best interests...

> How bout you complainers go offer your bosses to work for free

  And if you went to your Boss and said, "Hey, you need to give me a 50% raise"? I'm guessing some discussion would ensue up to and including the possibility of being shown the door...

[Guest]

A read of the responses so far is disappointing as it is just a continuation of the bitch session.  Adobe has little incentive to change as the subscription only model is more profitable for them, even with loosing some of the current users.  Like Noel says "users need an exit strategy" to have something to fall back on when they stop subscribing. 

So lets continue with some suggestions other than I am out of here, ain't no way, Adobe must drop subscription only, etc.  How about some positive solutions that will work for all that can be taken to Adobe?

[Samoreen]

Dragoro21 wrote:

How bout you complainers go offer your bosses to work for free. I mean, its the right thing to do, right?

How about your boss lowering your salary and preventing you from working for another company?

[erickamoore84]

That doesn't really make sense, seeing as though you are purchasing a product, not a person. How bout you rent your car, house, tv, computer, phone, etc (with no option ever of buying and owning) and see who complains then...

[JJMack]

Noel Carboni wrote

Adobe needs to provide an exit strategy.

They will never provide an exit strategy give their hostages an easy way out Oh I get  it "Sarcasm" you being sarcastic

[Noel Carboni]

JJMack wrote:

Oh I get  it "Sarcasm" you being sarcastic

Not at all.  I'm dead serious, as I believe Curt is as well.

An exit strategy is NECESSARY or people will not commit!

-Noel

[JJMack]

I do not like Adobe's announcement like most here however we need accept what has happened.

Adobe market software for Amateurs Photographers the Elements Family "Adobe Photoshop Elements" and "Adobe Premiere Elements". Though Photoshop Elements lacks many desirable features in Photoshop.  It is all Adobe is going to be market for the Photographers. It competes well with other products design for the Amateur digital Photographer and is affordable

The rest of Adobe Software products are designed for Commercial Publication for the Professionals. Layout, Graphic design and Web even flash web Gaming. 

In the past Advanced Amateurs and Commercial Photographers found Photoshop useful and affordable within their budget. 

However Photoshop keeps growing in complexity, features and size. Development cost grew as well. Adobe needed more revenue to cover the development cost so Adobe marketed two versions of Photoshop Standard for the Photographer and Photoshop Extended for Publishers. With Adobe CC announcement it is clear Adobe has chosen to drop out commercial Photography market for two versions of Photoshop no longer exist just the extended 3d publication version now exists no special priced version for the Photographer.

Its clear from Adobe CC hype they had nothing new for that market so they drop out of it. However they intend to continue to milk CS6 for as long as they can. State they will make fixes for CS6 more likely that's BS to help keep the milk flowing.  Its that simple Take a look

Photoshop CC / Features

A more connected Photoshop: I need my computer connected to the Internet, don't need my image editor connected but if it were I wouldn't consider that to be a problem. I also don't get the more connected part CS6 updates itself when Adobe makes updates for it.  Adobe just stopped fixing its bugs.

NEW All-new Smart Sharpen: sharpening is not new the name smart sharpen is not new did smart sharpen need to be better old smart sharpen does a good job when used well.

NEW Intelligent upsampling: Upsamplimg is not new. Never read anything about dumb upsampling. I will never print a billboard size image and image that large don't require terrific upsampling.

NEW Extended features included: Extended feature  are not required for the Photographer

NEW Camera Raw 8 and layer support: I only shoot RAW so clearly I want ACR. ACR work best with RAW Camera Data. Jpeg and Tiff  like Layer don't contain Camera RAW data. ACR supports JPEG and TIFF, now any Layer or group of layers can be saved as a jpeg file. Then placed back into the current document and worked on with ACR. There a script on Russell Browns web site that even automates this process. Sounds like Adobe just made this a little easier ACR 8 can work on layers like it works on Jped and Tiff.  Most likely CC first make it a smart object layer.  Then uses the normal copy object to users temp folder and pass the temp file to ACR. 

NEW Editable rounded rectangles: Don't know what Adobe even means here.  I can edit rounded rectangle paths today perhaps some new interface has been added. I just don't know.

NEW Multi-shape and path selection: I can do this today in the Paths palette. In Photoshop CC there will additional ways you can do this.

NEW Camera Shake Reduction: It best to avoid shake. Today there are third party plug-ins that address camera shake. So if you have Parkinson's and shake a lot you will not need to buy a plug-in for Photoshop CC.

NEW Expanded Smart Object support: I do use smart object at time however I do not to tunny tucks with liquify and if I wanted to I could do it in a non destructive way just using a layer.

NEW Improved 3D painting: Not required for the photographer

NEW Improved type styles: For the publisher

NEW Copying of CSS attributes: For the publisher

NEW Conditional Actions: Now that is something I would like. However for that to be of value Adobe needs to first fix all the bugs they have introduced into Photoshop Automation since CS3

NEW Improved 3D Scene panel: For the publisher

NEW Workflow time-savers: looks like a mixed bag here

NEW Improved 3D effects: For the publisher

NEW Color import from web files: For the publisher

NEW System anti-aliasing for type: For the publisher

Content-Aware technologies: not listed as new

Mercury Graphics Engine: not listed as new

Intuitive video creation: not listed as new

Blur Gallery :not listed as new

Intuitive 3D tools and DICOM support:not listed as new

Background save and auto-recovery: If CC Photoshop is stable you could turn the auto part off.

NEW Improved Min and Max filters: I been using Photoshop for some time and have not use these much.

[Greg_Bohn]

> Adobe needed more revenue to cover the development cost so

  'Needed' can be a relative thing. Like "I need more money to cover basic expenses" verses "I need more money to buy a bigger yatch".  Adobe had yearly revenues of what? Over 4 billion dollars?

> Its clear from Adobe CC hype they had nothing new for that market so they drop out of it.

  It's my take that this is more than simply saying that the "Amateur" market isn't profitable enough. It's working to further lock-in and limit the Professionals as well.

  So, I think they believe that some of the Amateur market will roll-over, and the more professional market gets a tighter lock-in at a higher income.

  I'ld guess that Adobe is running out of steam for new features, and a model where customers pay you no matter what is more appealing than having to produce new things in order to get increased upgrades...