Photoshop CC - Rent to Own?

[Guest]

I have been following and commenting on the firestorm of protest about Adobe's switch to a Cloud only subscription.  Many angry users and they all want Adobe to reinstate the status quo.  In my opinion this is just not going to happen.  But like Obama says "never let a good crisis go to waste".  So let the users get behind a compromise that neither side will be happy with, but will work for both.

Besides price, the next biggest complaint is that if you stop your subscription you have nothing.  So my proposal of Rent to Own.  Here is one way to do it.

After 3 years of renting you are entitled to a download of the version of your products that was active 2 years prior.  This download would be a perpetual licence. 

Arguments for the above.

1.  Adobe is not going to give you the current version as is deceases incentive to continue subscription once you have a current version.  So don't beat a dead horse with this argument.   Two years back seems like a good compromise. 

2.  CS6 is also a perpetual licence, but will it work with the then current computers and OS in the future?  Evidence says not likely.  So a 2 year old product should still be OK.

3.  I chose 3 years of rental as that would be more than one would pay in rental to buy the product, if it was offered.  This may be a negotiable point with Adobe.  But if you rent for 10 years, and then retire as a professional photographer, or your interests shift, you need the programs so you can continue working with the images.

4.  The argument that there is no disk for versions, as it is all subscription, is hollow.  They have a product that you download to your computer.  All Adobe needs is a deactivation code so it does not ask for the monthly payment.  All Adobe would have to do is keep the version that was active on January 1 two years ago.

Let the users come up with a compromise, rather than digging in and saying no way, and getting nothing.

[PhotoRoy1]

"I'ld guess that Adobe is running out of steam for new features, and a model where customers pay you no matter what is more appealing than having to produce new things in order to get increased upgrades..."   I have thought the same thing. Photoshop has basicly reached the end of the line for what most still photographer need.  Photoshop hasn't changed all that much one version to another. When I got CS3 my computer didn't have the resources to handle Bridge (too many files per folder). I went back to Photoshop 7  and used it until I upgrade the computer.  Photoshop 7 was fine for my basic needs and CS6 still has the basic format that Photoshop 7 has.  A lot of photographers like Lightroom. I think Adobe thinks that the people who prefer a non subscription based program will use Lightroom.  Roy

[Picturequest]

14. JJMack,

"I do not like Adobe's announcement like most here however we need accept what has happened."

Actually we don't have to accept it. We vote with our wallets. As much as I like updates, i don't see anything ground breaking in Photoshop CC over CS6. Camera raw plug-in, Building straightening. and the deblur filter. This would be an example where I would have skipped CS7 and see what CS8 brings in 18 months. I don't think there are any Can't live without features offered in this update.

[JJMack]

A did not say not to vote we need too. We have to accept that Adobe is using strong arms and our own work and assets on us.  They will win if they meet their subscription target.  Please vote do not sign up not even for a test try.  That the way I casting my small single vote.

You would think the DOJ would jump on Adobe for increasing pricing 80%  or more,  but ever since Bill Gates beat the DOJ companies believe fleshing customers is a good way to go when they think they can get away with it. 

[John T Smith]

First, I will say that my agreement with your proposal really counts for very little, since I am a home user who will NOT go to the Cloud... CS5 Master Collection does everything I need

Second, the only thing that will make Adobe change is reduced revenue and/or lower stock prices and earnings... I simply do not think Adobe is listening to anything we say... or, at least, not listening and really paying much attention

[Guest]

John T Smith wrote:

First, I will say that my agreement with your proposal really counts for very little, since I am a home user who will NOT go to the Cloud... CS5 Master Collection does everything I need

Second, the only thing that will make Adobe change is reduced revenue and/or lower stock prices and earnings... I simply do not think Adobe is listening to anything we say... or, at least, not listening and really paying much attention

CS5 will do everything you need today and tomorrow I agree.  But in 8 years?  Will it be like running Photoshop 7 on a modern computer? 

I assure you this is a much more profitable business model than the past one.  In addition they are playing into the modern financial process of small monthly payments rather than a onetime big expenditure.  A car sales person never asks how much you want to spend for a car, it is always how much can you afford per month?  Or how many people want to shell out $700 for an iPhone, but have no problem signing up for a 2 year contract at inflated prices?

I agree that right now Adobe is not listening to anything we say as it is all NOT, NOT, NOT.  They know as well as you do those people will be back when the alternatives are not attractive and the retoric dies down. 

A proper exit strategy is to Adobe's long term benefit as it will provide some incentive for current uses to accept the subscription mode, and it will enhance revenue.  I do not see any downside to either party from this. 

It is in the users lap whether they want to dig in and proclaim "just say no", or whether to present a win-win solution.

[Greg_Bohn]

> A proper exit strategy is to Adobe's long term benefit as it will  provide some incentive for current uses

> to accept the subscription mode,  and it will enhance revenue.  I do not see any downside to either

> party  from this. 

   You have to realize that the removal of an exit strategy is part of their plan. It's part of the leverage to make it painful to ever leave.

  Since it's part of their lock-in strategy, it seems unlikely that Adobe would give in on this unless they absolutely had to.

[John T Smith]

I emailed a link to this discussion to adbecare@adobe.com

>CS5 will do everything you need today and tomorrow I agree.  But in 8 years?

I am a home hobbyist, not a business, so I do not see any reason to go beyond CS5 (well... before I bought CS5 Master Collection I did have a license for PPro CS3, so I updated to PPro CS6... which has a major AVCHD bug that I now "hope" will be fixed)

Since I have no income to offset the expense of my hobby... and no plans to buy either a still or movie camera that uses anything other than JPEG or AVCHD... I have NO incentive to upgrade past my current CS5 MC and CS5 Premiere Pro (and, with the still unfixed AVCHD bug in CS6... which I did not know when I bought the upgrade... CS6 has turned out to not be such a good purchase)

As far as X number of years from now... if my current computer wears out (replacing drives is no big deal, I use http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image-for-linux.htm to clone my boot drive, so installing a new drive and putting my current image on the new drive is easy) by the motherboard ever dying, I will just buy a new motherboard that will work with Windows 7 (even if Windows is up to a much later version, I *should* be able to find a motherboard that will work with Win7)

But, that is all would'a - could'a - should'a speculation... for now, I will stay with what I have

[de_coleman]

This sounds reasonable.  I'm not going to sign up for CC until there is an exit strategy.

[zchrykng]

Personally I am just planning on jumping ship to either GIMP or Corel next time I feel the need to upgrade.

[*Photonic]

zchrykng wrote:

Personally I am just planning on jumping ship to either GIMP or Corel next time I feel the need to upgrade.

This option is on a lot of people's minds. Many "Standard Version" PS users who don't need PS Extended are now looking at alternative products and thinking of viable exit strategies from PS in the near future. As such, a new market is being created.

It will take time for competitors to R&D a PS "Standard" replacement, so I'm wondering how long I can hold out using CS5. As an Apple OS user, I'm in a precarious position relative to their "OS version every year" marketing drive. Will their next OS, due out soon, break CS5? If so, then how long can I hold out w/o a new computer? New computer equals new OS.

I was planning on upgrading to CS7, but now I'm faced with paying $199 for an upgrade to CS6 instead. CS6's less than stellar new features are just not worth it to me. Should I get sucked into the CC $10/mo. intro-offer in order to buy myself some time?

As Curt, who started this thread is saying, we all really want another option -- something cheaper and with an exit strategy, if needed.

The best option I can think of, that Adobe may be OK with, is making the $10/mo. intro subscription price permanent for a "Standard" version of PS, and then after two years of subscribing, allow us to opt-out for $50 while providing a permanent license to the previous year's version. This isn't ideal, but at least it's something "better."

[Noel Carboni]

*Photonic wrote:

As Curt, who started this thread is saying, we all really want another option. Something cheaper and with an exit strategy, if needed.

I don't mind so much paying a premium price for premium software, but yes, knowing that one day I could just stop and have a reasonably recent version to continue to use (e.g., into retirement or whatever) would be nice.  As it is, we have to assume we're going to pay by the month for Photoshop until we die (and realistically for a few months after).

-Noel

[Crystal Visionary]

I agree with Greg Bohn.  This new strategy of Adobe's means they can continue to collect revenue forever without doing much to upgrade and improve the product.  There is no incentive to put a lot into R&D if they can make the same amount of money without doing it.  As someone else mentioned, it looks like Adobe is no longer interested in still photographers in general, hobbyists, or small photography businesses.  They are going after the large corporate market where these monthly payments may not be a deal breaker.  Corel is still out there for $70 and some people think it is better than Photoshop, and it comes with Nik filters.  I don't think Photoshop is all that great a product anyway.  A lot of the underlying code is very old and not state of the art. 

The only way Adobe will change its mind on this new pricing scheme would be if they see themselves actually lossing customer base and someone like Corel growing quickly.  It would not be the first time that the dominant company lost customers to someone else.  I can remember when WordPerfect was the word processor everybody used, and Lotis owned the speadsheet market. 

I am a small business still photography user.  I have no interest in the cloud or many of the new features in CC.  By the way, Lightroom is going to be part of the cloud and on a subscription base too.

[Noel Carboni]

Nevada Shooter wrote:

I have no interest in the cloud or many of the new features in CC.

I certainly respect your position, but perhaps you might want to wait until you can actually try the new features (next month) to see whether you feel you want/need them.

-Noel

[Crystal Visionary]

Noel, I don't want to rent my software.  I am too small an operation for that to be cost effective.  I work alone and there is no one on the cloud I want or need to colaborate with in the cloud.  There are a few improvements in Photoshop CC that might be of interest to a still photographer like me, like the new Smart Sharpen, but it is not worth getting myself into a situation were I will not be able to use my software without paying for it forever.  If I remember right, Microsoft once said it was going to rent its software too, but backed down in the face of wide spread oposition in the customer base.  I think the new Adobe pricing scheme is going to cause most small time users to find other solutions.  Adobe is pricing us out of the market.

[JJMack]

I feel the the only group being hit hard by the CC announcement is the long time Photoshop Standard users.  The Advanced Armature and the Professional photographers. We have been loyal customers and have a lot of work effort and our assets tied into Photoshop a big investment. 

Long ago we paid Adobe $700 for use of Photoshop and have been paying $200 every 18 Months since.  Adobe will no longer be marketing a Photoshop Standard version to force users to use what the don't need so Adobe get more money.  Adobe is using strong arms only marketing what would be call Photoshop Extended renamed to Photoshop CC.  It cost 80% more then Photoshop Standard version.  Adobe knows we don't need the added features as well as they know we have work processes and assets tied to Photoshop. So they are leveraging that agents us.  It the business way to treat your customers beat them over their heads their own assets. A gun given freely give to Adobe by their loyal customers for they trusted Adobe. 

I have read that Adobe is considering producing a Photographers version of Photoshop.  I think the considering has to do with how many subscription they don't get from their user base.  I hope many will not take advantage of the come along user try it for halt price a little while that Noel seem to be so keen on.  See through this ploy wait till Adobe produces the  Photographers version or CS6 doesn't function because on your new MAC or Windows operating system.   If Adobe hits their subscription target there will never be a new  Photographers version of Photoshop. If your Processes and programs work today in CS6 and meets you needs they will still work in the future and you can continue to develop on CS6. 

If Adobe pounds one market into submission which market will the target next. Will you be their Cross Hairs again...

[charles badland]

I feel the the only group being hit hard by the CC announcement is the long time Photoshop Standard users.

Oh no. No, no.  Freelance graphic artists and small design firms, even ones that upgrade every 18 months, will see a big price jump.

If I just need Photoshop Standard, Illustrator, Acrobat and InDesign, I can purchase CS Design Standard for $1300. Upgrade every 18 months at $275. In a nine-year span outlay will be $2675.

The same user going to the Cloud will have to subscribe to Cloud Complete at $50/mo. In the same nine-year period the outlay is $5400 -  MORE THAN DOUBLE the cost of staying with CS and upgrading at each new release! Subscribing to those 4 apps individually in the CC... I think it is somewhere around $7500 over nine years.

It is a large, but not very affluent or influential section of the design community that is hurt hard by the CC pricing structure. I am not anti-Cloud. I like some of the benefits that can come from a continuously updated model. But the pricing scheme by Adobe seems very unfair to many long-time, mid-tier users.

[JJMack]

Adobe is using  BIGGER GUNS then I though.  Time for some competition if Adobe looses a large portion of its Customer install base other developers will see this as an opportunity. 

So it depends on a large portion of Adobe's install base trenching in and keep using CS6 suite.  From the hype I read for Photoshop CC staying on CS6 will not be a hard thing to do. With all the new HTML 5 and Web stuff being developed I don' know what options the Freelance graphic artists and small design firms have hopefully there will be some.  Some of Photoshop new CC features look like the may even be useful for that group.

[Noel Carboni]

The promise of enhanced image quality in my photo editing results has me wanting Photoshop CC.

-Noel

[JJMack]

Noel Carboni wrote:

The promise of enhanced image quality in my photo editing results has me wanting Photoshop CC.

Get a better lens its a one time cost and will help you more then software can enhance a poorer image.

Oh I forgot your trying to focus and sharpen stardust that lens may cost more then Photoshop

[nahravka]

Even if first year of CC will cost only $5.00/month, it is obvious that ADOBE target within 2 years will be

$50.00 or more/month for whole package. Once Adobe will succeed with this, Microsoft, Apple etc will

do exactly same and cost of running PC in single household will equal of leasing a brand new car. Resistance to whole CC idea will force them to think again. I kind of feel sorry for those who already

went CC way year ago, simply because there will be no refund, once whole project crashes and also feel sorry for employees who will lose a job (unless they will be willing to move to India and do same job for 10% wage)

[Noel Carboni]

JJMack wrote:

Get a better lens its a one time cost and will help you more then software can enhance a poorer image.

Oh I forgot your trying to focus and sharpen stardust that lens may cost more then Photoshop

You got it.  But don't worry about me.  I'm already up in the clouds AND I also have a perpetual license for Photoshop CS6.  Siriusly.

-Noel

[JJMack]

I know Sirius is the brightest star in the sky in Canis Major but it looks like you goy some serious lens flair there.  I thought we paid big bucks the get that Hubble lens thinge fixed

[Noel Carboni]

Think "pretty", JJ. 

This is from a ground-based telescope array.

And lest you think this is particularly flared, try to find another Sirius photo anywhere that shows as many dim stars so close in.  Try to spot that little "S" asterism to the east, for example.

-Noel

[charles badland]

Sirius is the brightest star in the sky in Canis Major

Brightest star (save Sol) in the whole sky JJ.

However, I think new Photoshop CC can improve Noel's pic a bit with its new "lens flare" filter:

Parody video:  Five new features in Photoshop CC

[JJMack]

charles badland wrote:

Five new features in Photoshop CC

Most look geared to geared to web design.  Most look like they can be done with little to no effort with current tools.  If good to hear adobe can now draw a better circle were to old ones that bad Adobe is now well rounded. In fact everything is rounded OH my.  I have to admit I use the old Adobe lens flair a lot over the holidays which was very rare. Next It will be easier to flair my images distorting them all over the place OH My.  Automatic text styles Automatic rounded corners and automatic bevel and emboss OH My  OH My The basic and most fundamental important features Ten years in the making OH My G.. .

[ admin:  Note the word PARODY in the description of that video ]