Photoshop CC - Rent to Own?

[Guest]

I have been following and commenting on the firestorm of protest about Adobe's switch to a Cloud only subscription.  Many angry users and they all want Adobe to reinstate the status quo.  In my opinion this is just not going to happen.  But like Obama says "never let a good crisis go to waste".  So let the users get behind a compromise that neither side will be happy with, but will work for both.

Besides price, the next biggest complaint is that if you stop your subscription you have nothing.  So my proposal of Rent to Own.  Here is one way to do it.

After 3 years of renting you are entitled to a download of the version of your products that was active 2 years prior.  This download would be a perpetual licence. 

Arguments for the above.

1.  Adobe is not going to give you the current version as is deceases incentive to continue subscription once you have a current version.  So don't beat a dead horse with this argument.   Two years back seems like a good compromise. 

2.  CS6 is also a perpetual licence, but will it work with the then current computers and OS in the future?  Evidence says not likely.  So a 2 year old product should still be OK.

3.  I chose 3 years of rental as that would be more than one would pay in rental to buy the product, if it was offered.  This may be a negotiable point with Adobe.  But if you rent for 10 years, and then retire as a professional photographer, or your interests shift, you need the programs so you can continue working with the images.

4.  The argument that there is no disk for versions, as it is all subscription, is hollow.  They have a product that you download to your computer.  All Adobe needs is a deactivation code so it does not ask for the monthly payment.  All Adobe would have to do is keep the version that was active on January 1 two years ago.

Let the users come up with a compromise, rather than digging in and saying no way, and getting nothing.

[nahravka]

IT took only few trains loaded with people from East Germany to take down BERLIN WALL,

how many unhappy customers is needed to take down 1 corporation

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2013/05/29/adobe-considering-cloud-changes-in-response-to-critics/?mod=y...

and maybe shake up a little WALL STREET or at least whole IT sector and make investors

to runaway from sector.......well, it looks like someone is already walking on very thin ice,

and even EXCELENT fiscal report on June 18 (just day after !!!!), will not convince shareholders

about credibility and future profits.......

[station_two]

nahravka wrote:

IT took only few trains loaded with people from East Germany to take down BERLIN WALL…

That's just absurd.  I was there, as I was during the reunification of Germany in 1990. 

There were hundreds of thousands of East German citizens on the march, and there was the solid support of the president of the US who gave the go-ahead, plus the historic Tsarist Russian Empire—personified as the later Soviet Union— had begun to crumble on his own weight and following the example of other empires around the globe in the last four centuries. 

Hardly comparable  to us disgruntled, insignificant Adobe ex-customers. 

[Mike_Ornellas]

As vocal as I have been in my last 13 years, plus more like 16, on this forum, I don't know what to say. Yes, I'm speechless - and that takes a lot of undoing.

mike o.

[station_two]

Good to see you, MO. 

[bababonga]

And here is the new overwhelming great solution from MS: Winidoofs most creative cloud.

Nothing changed, but you´ll get 1 gb of online store and a few other useless gimmicks (....and we can name it "cloud" that way).

And all that for a little monthly fee of $50!!!

No longer great barrier to use winidoofs and your PC!

Always get automatic updates like Pissta or winidoofs 8 (without the possibility to aware!)

It´s so absolutely great. So sugar glossy (BS)!

The small print:

Winidoofs will connect to your bank account and when there is enough money it will start up. Else not.

Yes, we have access to all your cloud files and can do what we like with them. Even we can cut the access. But we will not do... may be... trust us...

You will never lose full editable access to your files (as long as you pay)

No, there are not so many Apps (in most cases none) that can read and FULLY edit your creations. We tried to not tell you this. Xuse, that we don´t pointed out better.

No, we are not longer motivated to do updates (we never were a lot), as you will have to pay anyway.

And yes, we will not longer sell other packaged OS, as we indirectly promised a few month ago when we said, that our latest OS will be the last upgradeable.

Yes, you will always have to upgrade your hardware if we decide, it´s necessary. Elswise you can use our provided old version (we will not give our non subscribing long time users) but you have to pay for the latest. Sorry for that.

Ehm, and, yes, you are a kind of Beta-Tester in future. Ehm, and we don´t give any warranty for anything. Ehm, good luck (May be our new updates - if they ever come to table - will not break any workflow like in the past. And if: Now you can be sure it hurts all users not only that, who installed first).

No, YOU don´t have to decide if it´s good for you or not. So it´s not an option any longer. It´s a must you must like.

Yes, it´s right, we bought also the competitor with the hooked fruit and all the others, so we are a monopolist right now. But you have enough choices to go to. So take it or not.

No, we are not listening to any concerns.

And we even don´t care about you.

[Mike_Ornellas]

The dwell time between CC implementation and user adoption may in fact cripple Adobes ability to feed its stock holders. Time will tell. Things don't look good though.

[Noel Carboni]

Mike Ornellas wrote:

What happens when there is a CC 8 and you need to use CC 7

I can't predict the future, but indications are that once Photoshop CC 15.0 comes out, you won't be forced to uninstall the Photoshop CC 14.x that you already have running. 

I can, for example, quite successfully run Photoshop CC 14.0 while Photoshop CS6 13.1.2 is still installed and working now.

-Noel

[Crystal Visionary]

Noel Carboni wrote:

It's not strictly legal to reverse-engineer Adobe's internals to expose normally blocked functionality, though.

I don't see that as much above a cracked version of Photoshop, frankly.  I'd be surprised if Adobe doesn't nail him legally.

-Noel

You can patent a method of doing something, but not an idea.  Adobe can patent the method they use to let's say sharpen an image, but they cannot patent the idea of sharpening.

[JJMack]

Its still Emements. One of the first things you read there is"

The ElementsXXL plugin, created by German software developer Harald Heim  has one fairly specific goal in mind: to gift Adobe's consumer image editing application with some of the functionality its creator reserved for its pricier, pro-oriented equivalent. Heim is the first to admit that ElementsXXL will not completely remove the need for Adobe Photoshop. There are still quite a few features that can't yet be recreated in Elements. (Key among these are full 16-bit and CMYK support, as well as video and 3D editing functionality.)

Many feel CMYK is a requirement. Add to that many Actions and Scripts are not compatible with PSE.  PSE can not edit Actions to fix compatibility problems.  Script that have not been encoded into binary can be edited with a text editor however may not be able to be made compatible with PSE.

PSE may have been created from Photoshop sources. However you not going to be able to make PSE back into Photoshop too much was stripped out.

Photoshop still exists its just that Adobe is bent on its demise so Adobe can extract more money from their loyal Photoshop customers for something they don't need or want and also charge them more for it then they charge their content developers customers.

[the_wine_snob]

Interesting. Heim created Plug-in Commander (IIRC the name now), and aspects of it were incorporated into PS by Adobe, a few versions later.

I am totally unfamiliar with this PSE plug-in, so learned something rather big in this thread.

Thanks,

Hunt

[station_two]

Nevada Shooter wrote:

   Certainly there are people, and companies that will like Adobe's new marketing scheme…

LOL ! 

This post in the forums comment forum says it all:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/5326587#5326587

photofred wrote:

This is more troubling to me:

From their terms of service:

6.5 Adobe may modify or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Services or Materials, or any portion thereof, with or without notice. You agree that Adobe shall not be liable to you or anyone else if we do so.

So my business is completely at the mercy of Adobe.

No way.

This is evil courting stupidity, for one would have to be a complete imbecile to sign on to this model.

You [photofred] summed it up well:  NO WAY !

[Hudechrome]

I'm a subscriber and have not been offered the update yet.

My subscription now goes to $59 as well, since the trial period is over.

I use other than PS sparingly, so I can easily drop them. Except for Audition which I began using in earnest on a job I took on. So, it's full price or back to Audacity!

I would look to other providers as competition to Adobe in the not too distant future. DxO in particular. With all theis bruhaha over the cloud, mobile applications are comming on strong, and some of those cameras are dynamite! The need for PS may be waning, possibly.

When someone can point the flat side of a pack of cards at a subject and come up with a competitve photo to my new 7100, well, that makes folks sit up and take notice!

[station_two]

Hudechrome wrote:

I'm a subscriber and have not been offered the update yet…

I thought it's an automatic and transparent transition?

[Hudechrome]

Not yet, not here.

And I don't allow an auto install. Ever. I still have CS6.

[station_two]

Hudechrome wrote:

Not yet, not here.

And I don't allow an auto install. Ever. I still have CS6.

Well, sure. Photoshop CC (14.x) will be released in June 17.  There's no earthly reason why you should have it already, nor why an "update" would have been offered to you by now.  That's what I mean.

I would expect that on June 17 or shortly before that you'll be notified that "Photoshop 14.x is ready to be downloaded and installed now", without any prior notice. that's what I meant by automatically and transparently.  It's not like you have to opt in, you're already on board!

[Hudechrome]

I can refuse it.

[station_two]

Hudechrome wrote:

I can refuse it.

Sure, if you have already fulfilled whatever obligation to which you committed yourself when you subscribed initially, I presume.

[Hudechrome]

My only obligation is to continue to pay to use.

I'm not likely to refuse it but I might wait a while.

[station_two]

Hudechrome wrote:

…still have CS6.

Only beta testers have anything more advanced than that. 

[Greg_Bohn]

*Photonic wrote:

...

As Curt, who started this thread is saying, we all really want another option -- something cheaper and with an exit strategy, if needed.

The best option I can think of, that Adobe may be OK with, is making the $10/mo. intro subscription price permanent for a "Standard" version of PS, and then after two years of subscribing, allow us to opt-out for $50 while providing a permanent license to the previous year's version. This isn't ideal, but at least it's something "better."

It would seem to me that, sure... most of us "want another option".

I haven't seen anything that suggests Adobe is willing to offer another option.

  I mean they went the "thermonuclear" route in the first place by unilaterally foisting the whole new scheme on us. They had to have known what they were doing.

  It seems to me that the only thing that would change their mind is if they see a big enough back lash in reduced income.

  Otherwise, it seems unlikely that they care what we want.

[Gulliver64]

Just one more thing: bye, bye Adobe!

GraphicConverter can do almost the same stuff - and is shareware!

[Frank Heller]

http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-t he-mandatory-creative-cloud-s...

[Fats Burns]

There has been a strong negative reaction to Adobe's CC approach for Creative Suite.  Australian Photography photo magazine is full of negative customer comments.  I agree with the following comment from the magazine:

For the many amateurs and hobbyists for whom post-processing is an imprtant part of their creativity, this is devastating. Paying $20/moth for Photoshop is simply not viable. Even if I was happy to pay, my internet is slow and sometimes not even accessible which would cause much frustration. Yep, I'll be looking for another editing program, too. I hope this encourages other developers to see the opportunities Adode has just opened for them. For those who stick with Adobe, I predict the monthly subscription charges will rise once Adobe counts the cost of the loss of once-loyal customers. I urge Adobe to come up with an alternative for the non-professionals and photographers with poor or no internet. This is so, so disappointing.

AND

Stupid stupid stupid. Last month I had no Internet for one month thanks to Telstra. If I only had cloud software I would have really been up sxxt creek without a paddle. Looks like ill be looking at other alternatives. I use cs6. Photoshop, bridge and in design, you have lost me as a customer Adobe.

Alternatives to moving Photoshop to Creative Cloud for users, particularly with poor internet access, is needed. 

[station_two]

While agreeing with you that there's very little to like in this Adobe move, I have to say that you are under one misconception:

A continuous Internet connection will not be needed to actually use the software under the Cloud subscription model.  The software is downloaded and installed on your computer, it only needs to connect with Adobe once every 30 days, which is bad enough in my view.

No, I will not be subscribing myself—unless they offer it for about $4 per month with a 25-year guarantee of no increase in the monthly fee at all. 

[PECourtejoie]

And, according to the Creative Cloud FAQ, the connection is every 30 days, if you select the month-by-month option. (it makes sense, doesn't it?), but with the yearly commitment, it is currently every 99 days, and it seems like the period might actually increase, and there are plans out for people without connectivity for a longer period (contact customer service)