Photoshop CS4 is a disaster

[_ProArtist_]

I'm am just at a loss of words.

What a mess. It could not be any slower. What were you thinking Adobe?

You ripped apart the code just to add GPU support for what? To provide worse performance?

Make sure you DL the demo first... CS4 is a disaster.

The latest hardware cant even run it smoothly... Dont tell me its graphic drivers.

[Dramenon]

Greetings all,

If those of you that have the lag problem could run "dxdiag" and then email that text file to danielatadobedotcom I would like to run through some of the data.

- In the taskbar at the bottom of your screen, click Start, and then click Run.
- In the Run dialog box, type: dxdiag ( Click OK to run)
- A dialog box displays System and display info
- Save All information (or at least System and display information)

Thanks for your feed back...

[Chris Cox]

Wayne - we are interested in quality, and we do more testing than any other product I know of. But, especially with the GPUs, there are too many variables.

And just because a bug description is short, does not mean it is accurate, or simple, or that it could have been caught in testing. "Processors with Pentium4 mask revision 3 and unpatched BIOS versions lock up for several seconds when running threaded code."

And right now, we have absolutely no idea why the nonGPU case is running slow or showing problems -- it should be the same as CS3, and was in all our tests.

[Guest]

Daniel, I've just emailed you my dxdiag info.

Nick

[Chris Cox]

Mike - the round brush cursor and SFW are both due to known driver bugs (probably an Nvidia card). Please update your drivers. If updating the drivers does not solve the problem, then contact the video card maker.

[Guest]

Well, Chris, if getting CS4 to run properly will require me to turn off the OpenGL features, then I might as well have not upgraded. And had I known this, I would not have done so.

[Chris Cox]

Nick - one more time: if your card and driver work correctly, you shouldn't have to turn it off.

We are slowly gathering information and reproducing some of the problems. Some are still drivers, a few might be bugs, and a few look like issues with XP and window ordering.

[Joanne Mead]

CS4 is far from a disaster. I have some graphics issues with both desktop and laptop, but even without the GPU features active, CS4 is a definite improvement over previous versions. We all have an infinite combination of motherboards, graphics cards and such like, such that it really is impossible for the software to run without a hitch on every machine.

The software has only been shipping for about three weeks, it's early days. Okay, quite a few people are posting to this forum, but there are probably a big majority of users who have had minimal problems and who are reaping the benefits.

My graphics card meets the minimum requirements for Open GL and Shader, but the computer restarted if I switched on the GPU features. I have updated the driver and it now freezes up if I use the lasso tool, but no restart. I suspect there's some other requirement for this to work. My PC is only 20 months old and reasonably well spec'd. Asus PB5 motherboard with the P965 chipset, an ATI Radeon 1950 XTX graphics card with 512MB graphics memory and 3GB normal ddr2 RAM, Core Duo E7500 processor.

I'm sure some fixes will come and an update released to improve things.

Joanne

[Chris Cox]

Hmm, restarts and whole system freezes are bad - usually hardware, firmware or driver issues. You definitely need to talk to ATI about that.

[Guest]

I installed CS4 the day it arrived. Everything has worked as advertised. What am I doing wrong?

Intel 5400 chipset
Intel Xeon E5410 (2.33GHZ, 1333Mhz, 2x6MB, Quad Core)
8GB DDR2 667 Quad Channel Memory 667MHz
512MB PCIe x16 nVidia Quadro FX 3700
160GB (7,200 rpm) SATA
Two 500GB (7,200 rpm) SATA
DC power supply 875 Watt
Windows Vista Business (64-bit)

[Guest]

>We are slowly gathering information and reproducing some of the problems. Some are still drivers, a few might be bugs, and a few look like issues with XP and window ordering.

Thank you, Chris. Finally, an admission that there might be bugs. As I have said before, I'm more than willing to help you work on this. But, I do Have The Most Recent Drivers. (Caps are in response to what you said to me.)

[Joanne Mead]

I am indeed talking to ATI about this. Trouble is that I've had issues with this card since day one and never managed to get it resolved while my warranty was valid. I'm just being patient and negotiating as best I can.

I can still benefit from many of the features while I'm resolving my graphics issues with ATI. My laptop has an nVidia card (8600M GT) and while this is one of the cards Adobe tested, there's the problem with the cursor. No updated drivers available either, I'm a bit stuck with that one! I haven't tried to turn on the GPU features on that.

Thank you Chris.

Joanne

[shoot_me_now-d3u3se]

It is interesting that looking at the people having problems I see two
reoccuring themes here.

1. AMD processors.
2. Nvidia graphics cards.

Having been burnt by AMD once before I now always go Intel...

Robert, you've been hammering on this for what—about 3 years? Maybe you should give it a rest.

[klsteven-vBdprK]

Most people that have problems have nvidia cards, because the majority of PS users simply seems to use nvidia.

[Rob_Keijzer]

As stated in another thread, I had lag problems too (panning and rotating), but the lag dissapeared when I went to PS preferences, Performance, leave "Enable OpenGL Drawing" on, but under Advanced Settings turn off eeverything.

And yes, I maintain a separate pc for PS and such, no cr*p comes near that one.

Rob

[_Derrick_Moore_]

The problem I have is with zooming and the text tool. Panning and rotating
aren't a problem. Turning off advanced OpenGL settings doesn't make a
difference. There seems to be a lot of people with the lag problems that
have the nVidia 8800 series card, and a lot of people who have the 8600
series are working fine, but it's hard to believe that there wasn't an 8800
card in one of the tester's machines.

[Guest]

My system (which I built) works fine:

Asus P5K Premium Mobo
Intel P35 chipset
Intel Q6600 (2.4GHZ, 800Mhz, 2x6MB, Quad Core)
8GB DDR2 800 Mushkin 4-3-3-10 RAM
BFG nVidia 8600GT OC 512 Mb
Four 500GB (7,200 rpm) SATA II
DC power supply 850 Watt
Windows Vista Ultimate (64-bit)
Two Dell Ultrasharps ( 1920 x 1200, 1680 x 1050)
Two LG DVD/CD drives.

Running Adobe Master Collection (full load), Quark 6.5 (for compatibility), CorelDraw X3, Pagemaker 7 (for compatibility), Office Professional 2007 (full load) & Maya 4.5. I also run SystemSuite 9 for maintainence. Don't do games on this machine.

I have noticed a lag if you scrub a slider really fast, the slider does not keep up with the mouse pointer, but if you click in the slider where you want to go, the update is immediate. So the answer is 'don't scrub the slider quickly'.

If I use the liquify filter with a 150px brush and run it over the canvas really quickly eventually eventually the brush will not respond while it updates. The question is: How often do you need to to that?

If I use the flick-pan, there is a minor stutter if I look really hard, but it is not enough to make a complaint.

If you are having major lags I apologize, for the whiners out there who think that the whole program will run like glass not matter what you throw at it: GROW UP!

Still immensely satisfied.

[Guest]

>could it be that the forum regulars are above average interested in technical stuff, and so tend to have less "dirty", more regularly maintained and updated systems?

100% true. those who care enough about photoshop and their systems to peruse this forum every day pick up all kinds of tips and tricks from the natural sharing and learning that comes from reading problems and helping solve them.

[Walter Elias]

Someone else mentioned DirectX. Adam, have you considered this? I'm not at all knowledgeable about DirectX. But I checked my system and it shows I have directX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904), with numerous dll files dated between February 2006 and April 2008. A search of Microsoft's website shows an August 2008 installer for 9.24.1400 and November 2008 installer for 9.25.1476. These do not show up, even as optional updates, on the Microsoft Update page. Which leads me to question whether there are different versions of DirectX installed on different Windows XP installations, depending on when Windows was installed.

Just a thought, since DirectX version was a major issue in a non-Adobe animation program I use.

And to those who speculate that the lag is happening on "dirty" systems... I am not a regular Photoshop forum user, but I work hard to keep my system clean and lean, avoid spyware-laden resource-hungry programs like Real Media, never install anything I don't need or never use (like Adobe Drive and Version Cue), don't visit dodgy websites, and so on. When I work in Photoshop, usually no other program is open except sometimes Bridge and/or Premiere. Yet I experience huge lag in Photoshop CS4, even with a new file with a single blank layer that I try drawing in. The problem is within Photoshop CS4.

[Guest]

>And to those who speculate that the lag is happening on "dirty" systems...

of course there are people like you who take the time to do the work to keep their systems running optimally. the point freeagent made and i agreed with is that in general, those who hang out here are almost all of that group, where as outside the percent who care to keep their systems running smooth if it goes beyong an occasional virus or spyware scan is very small indeed.

no disparagement intended, david. just an observation.

this is not to say that there aren't problems with certain configurations. bugs in inside code, outside code and plugins and drivers, etc. and problems with interactions of the multitude of components that go into making up the windows market.

they're being worked on, as in past releases. and this care is shown by the influx of adobe engineers and support staff that have been flooding this forum recently with offers to help track down problems and offering explanations. i know it sucks to keep hearing things like "update the video driver", and "write the card manufacturer", but if the past is any indication (and i've been here from version 5.5 and every release since then) most of these problems WILL work out sooner rather than later.

pax,
dave

[_Phos_four_dots_]

When Chris keeps saying something like "update the drivers" he's just suggesting good, standard troubleshooting procedure. The types of problems many are citing point toward outdated or corrupt drivers as a possible cause, and may likely be something Adam J and the other members of the QA team noticed as they were testing. Eliminate problems one-by-one so that the playing field becomes more level, and so that one can methodically work toward zeroing in on a qualifiable cause.

[Guest]

Freeagent:

Yes, companies put a lot of bloatware in their computers (as it is sometimes called) that may not mesh with other software that is installed later. I have seen it with patches to make their software work with on board sound or even video.
When you process a laptop or computer for repair the first thing the company tells you, that if need be to get your computer running, they will wipe your hard drive, and restore it to factory specs. It even reads that in the paperwork you receive with the system. They have no obligation what so ever.

I build my own systems because I upgrade. It is alot cheaper, in the long run, for me to do so. Everything I have learned is from reading books and visiting forums like this one. Computers are like a hobby for me. What I learned is to research before I buy so that I know before hand that what is bought will work with my system.

I take care of my systems. Keep them warm and clean. Yes I keep my system updated but I also do system restore points because some updates just break things that worked before.

Yup, lots of software that will not run on my vista 64 bit machine correctly (Or at all). Ran on the 32 bit version. But I knew this before I went 64 bit.

Yes, I am a technical type of person who wants to know why something works. It is in my blood and I enjoy the heck out of it.

Yes, store bought systems can be upgraded to a point. But a lot of vendors will put a fix on their systems to make things run. I bought a Dell computer years ago. The on board sound would not work without their little fix to their software. That was a mess when a new sound driver came up. Also the RAM that I ordered and paid for was not in the motherboard. Dell had put in cheaper, slower running ram. I found this out when a stick went bad. Dell refused to give me the ram that I ordered. I was past the one year point. That was enough for me.

So that day forward I have built and upgraded my own systems. I know what is in the case!!

There is just so much to learn and do.

[Joanne Mead]

David

I think there may be a grain of truth in what you say in that many of us are Photoshop users with regards to digital photography, but aren't power users of the software. Up until CS4 came out - a decent spec PC with a good dose of RAM and a decent processor/graphics card would run the software without drama. Regulars are probably more power users and much more gemmed up on the properties of various motherboards and graphics set ups.

My PC is just over 18 months old, and was spec'd to run CS2/CS3 which it did without a fuss. It wasn't an off-the-shelf system, but was built by a company that allowed customers to specify much of what went into the box. My laptop is just coming up to a year old and had the best laptop graphics available at that time, which just happened to be nVidia.

My system is 'clean' in that it's kept fully patched, cleaned and defragged regularly and has the minimum of superfluous software on there. So those of us who are users rather than very computer savvy do our best to spec our PC with a bit of future proofing built in, but occasionally we will get caught out.

Joanne

[Guest]

Joanne,

18 month old computer should run CS4 just fine. Glad you had input on what went in it when you had it built. CS4 has not been all fun and games with me. However, reading the boards and trying things out helped a lot. Just minor stuff now that I live with but with new drivers it may help out in the future. I am not even close a CS4 power user. Just part of my hobby.

I used to have a ASUS G1S laptop and that company was the same about updating the 8600M gt. Might be the same card as in yours. I never installed CS4 on it. I went as far as CS3 on it and it was working perfect. I ended up giving it to my son for college. He needed it more then I did and it was working perfect.

I have been lucky with ATI card's and bought only one that refused to work. I bought it at Compusa, when they were still alive, and they gave me a new one that worked. So I agree with you on the bad card and they, whoever they are, should honor the warrenty.

Freeagent,
Before you upgrade to 64 bit, please make sure the laptop will allow it. I wanted to update my Asus laptop to 64 bit. However, reading the boards people were having problems with that laptop running 64 bit. Besides the motherboard would only take and accept 4 gigs of ram no matter what. Plus there were hardly any drivers for that laptop for 64 bit. There was well documented issues with the motherboard and vista 64 bit.

Yes, pretty funny how all them helpful things boot up at the same time dragging things down with it.

[Walter Elias]

I'm not sure what the point of the previous 20 or so posts are. There is still a problem many people are having with the lag. By the way, I also built my own computer (with help of a major techno-geek) to spec it for 2D animation production. It is just over a year old. Absolutely every driver is up-to-date. I have a second computer, three years old, full of junk and running lots of unnecessary bells and whistles (since my teenage son uses it), which doesn't have the lag problem!

So the idea that "clean" systems experience the problem less would seem to be untrue. The opposite, in fact.

May I make a suggestion to the Adobe engineers who have been so eager to fix this issue? They are unable to reproduce the problem. Adam keeps calling on anyone in the Bay Area with this problem to contact him, but obviously there have been no takers. Would it be asking too much to suggest Adobe choose one of us with this problem and invest a couple hundred bucks into sending one of their engineers for a visit to try to track down the problem? Then they can go back to San Jose and work on a fix. It sure isn't going to happen by guesswork.

[shoot_me_now-d3u3se]

My guess is that they would prefer to invest that money to pay for round trip shipping to get a computer into their labs for analysis.

Are you willing to volunteer yours?