Printing magenta/red with CS5

[DavePinMinn]

OK, I have a bizarre situation, and I'm sure I"m missing something obvious.......

I've been using Photoshop for ages, and my Epson 2200 likewise, for ages. Everything is calibrated and my prints have been good, again for ages...  I converted to Windows 7 Professional last October, recalibrated, everything fine.

In April I upgraded from CS4 to CS5.  Club year was over so I didn't need to print anything for a little while.  Several weeks ago I printed some images and they came out magenta.  I ignored it and got caught up in other stuff.  More recently I needed to print an image I've printed before, and again, it came out quite magenta.......

I KNOW, back in the "old" days, this was an indication that I was managing color in both Photoshop and the printer.  But, by any figuring I can do, I'm ABSOLUTELY not doing the printing any differently than I was in CS4.  I"m setting the color management in Photoshop, and when I get to the printer dialog I'm ABSOLUTELY telling it to use ICM and NO COLOR MANAGEMENT........  I've tried different settings, different images, and different papers,

and things are still magenta.  I've done a nozzle check, which was perfect.  I've even CLEANED the print head, even though things looked fine.  I've rebooted the computer, cycled the printer on and off, said incantations, searched (in vain) for a virgin to sacrifice, and even PRINTED DIRECTLY from Lightroom V3, just to see if that'd many a difference.  I'm out of ideas.......

Does ANYBODY know of something that's bizarrely different in CS5 that'd cause this situation?

I"m about to reinstall CS4, just ot see if I get magenta prints there too, even though I never have before........

[DavePinMinn]

Actually, Noel, I took your advice to heart the other day......

R2880 is on its way.  I was going to get the 3880 but my volume of printing (at this time) makes the 2880 a more reasonable choice.

Life's too short to waste time and effort trying to get the 800 lb gorilla to pay attention.  I've got clients relying on me.  I've

got competitions I need to print for, and I've got art fairs for which I need to create new prints.  I'll sell the 2200 and move on.

I could do a complete print workflow, but I've gotta get a Light Magenta cartridge.....  I called the "local" National Camera,

which is about 25 miles from me to verify they had the ink.  Was told they did.  So, I drove all the way up there, and was told "No,

we don't actually have that."........  The manager was apologetic, but not particularly concerned.  That instant cost them

the sale of the 2880.

[Dave Polaschek]

As for paying attention, we are. I'm the printing engineer on Photoshop. I'm trying to help, but we've been trying to reproduce this problem in-house, and haven't been able to, so we need to figure out what's making this fail for you, and not for us.

Dave, if you're willing to help track this down, as I mentioned before, I'm in Arden Hills. For that matter, I've even got two spare light magenta cartridges here that I could bring along. Please private message me your contact information and I'll get in touch.

[Guest]

"downgraded" CS5 from what? There is nothing to downgrade from to begin with.

[Guest]

Yes, I said downgraded to CS5 . If something works and the "upgrade" breaks it, it becomes a downgrade.

Anyhow, today I printed from Aperture. Same image, same settings in the printer's software. NO MAGENTA CAST!

So, Adobe, how can you point the finger at Epson? or at the OS now?

Blaming Windows is pointless because the same problem occurs as well in OSX.

Blaming Epson is pointless because printing from an non-Adobe app produces the expected colors without the magenta cast.

The sad reality is that the CS5 "upgrade" broke something even in the previous version of photoshop if still installed.

No denying, no "I know better because I am an engineer" will get Adobe's people out of this one.

Fellow pro photographers, check out Aperture!  No layers but hey, you can use it to print...

[Chris Cox]

Anyhow, today I printed from Aperture. Same image, same settings in the printer's software. NO MAGENTA CAST!

That's impressive.  I didn't know there was a version of Aperture for Windows yet.

(you're in the wrong forum, we're talking about Windows specific driver issues here)

[Guest]

Mr Cox,

Where did I state there was an Aperture version for Windows?

I understand you are not happy having me report that the Magenta cast is cross platform.

Instead of firing sarcasm rounds from behind your desk at Adobe's' unhappy customers maybe you should go to work and fix your impressive mistake.

[Jeff Schewe]

StephBr wrote:

Instead of firing sarcasm rounds from behind your desk at Adobe's' unhappy customers maybe you should go to work and fix your impressive mistake.

Actually, if you bothered to indicate EXACLY what issue you are having on the Mac side (as apposed to contaminating a thread on Windows issues which may appear to be the same but are not) you might be able to get some help troubleshooting YOUR problem (which is not the same problem as this thread discusses). So far with your three posts on the Adobe User to User forums, you've failed to provide ay useful data about your system version, printer nor any steps you may have taken to fix the issue. The only tidbit you've bothered to post is that you seem to have an issue printing to Epson printers on the Mac in CS5.

Well, DOH...if your drivers are not up to date and you've not yet installed the Epson Common Updater. Heck, you don't even indicate what country you are in so we can't even tell you were to go to get your updates.

So far, your posts are essentially useless off topic chatter...so, do you want help or do you just want to rant?

[LeWando Images]

    Well Jeff....with a reply like that wether he is in the wrong forum or not....this place along with your reply is getting more childish and less professional all the time. Are you proud of sounding like a child ? I think if you don`t have anything positive to add please keep your childish dribble to your self. Posters like him will fade away if you don`t encourage them.....

[Jeff Schewe]

Hum...and your two posts in this thread have contributed exactly what in this thread?

Your first post indicates you don't use the printers in question and then stated you haven't even loaded Photoshop CS5...

[Guest]

You are right, I will go away but first let me explain why I decided to take part in this thread.

Having the exact issue you Windows users have, and searching for help, I came across this discussion. I had to jump in when I saw the typical finger pointing at Windows and Epson.

I thought my experience would be helpful to you and I was certainly not prepared to get jumped at by Cox, visibly on the defensive.

I have now better things to do than taking part of a flame war, like printing for instance.

Good luck, and remember, if you need to print, just use any non Adobe product and you should be fine for now.

[Jeff Schewe]

StephBr wrote:

Good luck, and remember, if you need to print, just use any non Adobe product and you should be fine for now.

Your milage may vary...I have zero problems printing from either Photoshop CS5 or Lightroom 3 to my Epson 9900 or 3880 from my Mac running OS X 10.6.3. So...maybe you have some problems most users don't have. Problem is, you've still not mentioned your printer, driver nor OS. So, trying to actually help you falls into the job category of mind reader, which sadly is not in my skill set.

[Guest]

"Actually, if you bothered to indicate EXACLY what issue you are having on the Mac side"

Can you read? MAGENTA CAST, just like you guys on Windows

"Well, DOH...if your drivers are not up to date and you've not yet installed the Epson Common Updater. Heck, you don't even indicate what country you are in so we can't even tell you were to go to get your updates."

Oh really? I need to update my drivers? And the geographical location of my printer is important? Are you nuts?

Done with you...

[Jeff Schewe]

StephBr wrote:

Oh really? I need to update my drivers? And the geographical location of my printer is important? Are you nuts?

If you are in Europe, the download sites will be different (not to mention the regionalization of the drivers). As to the driver version, how could we possibly know whether or not you need to update your drivers since A) you haven't indicated what printer you are using or B) what driver version and OS version you are using.

[Guest]

What changed is, Epson pays Adobe to put a bug in their updates to make us

think our printers are worn out so we will buy a new one.

Personally, I will NEVER buy another Epson printer.  It uses a TON of ink

and the cartridges are outrageous.

Since the adobe upgrade my R2400 is now telling me parts are worn out in it.

I did 3 times more printing on my r2200 before it wore out.  Because of the

cost to print the Epson way I've been sending most of my work out for print.

Barbara Ann Castelloe

<link removed>

[Hudechrome]

Printer mfgrs make their money on ink. Notice that the 3800 costs proportionally more than their 13z19's but the ink carts are far more economical. I hve the 3800 for about 3  to 4 years. I have replaced the Magenta and Cyan once. The light carts more often, of course. The Blacks (matte and glossy) also are more frequent, but I do a lot of B&W printing.

These are available on line well below list as well.

[Hudechrome]

Nah! I ran a 9600 for several years, then got offered the HW for a song when the business shut down.

I bought the 3800 instead!

PS, my Canon 13x19 bit the dust right after buying the Epson.

Whew!

[Noel Carboni]

davepinminn wrote:

Go into the registry and blow away every instance of ANYTHING with the word "epson" in it.

One can only assume the offending registry entry (or WHATEVER got changed) is not tagged with "epson" then.

I don't recall what OS you have, but do you have system recovery tools (e.g., sufficient depth in your System Restore list or full backup) that would allow you to take your system back to where it once worked?  I realize that may be a long time ago.

However, if you could restore the system to where it worked, one could imagine exporting the entire registry, and comparing it with a full export of the registry you currently have (or to one just after installing Photoshop CS5 and causing the problem again).  The differences may be numerous, but it could lead to a discovery.

There's also the possibility of getting a new printer...   You'd have to ask people what's working for them.  I'm getting decent prints from my little old HP inkjet.

These are drastic measures, I know.

-Noel

[DavePinMinn]

I probably COULD go back to prior to installing CS5, but I won't.  It'd be less painful to reinstall W7 from scratch.  Either way, it's not a reasonable thing to do.

As far as a new printer...  Possible, but that would be "undesirable".

I think it's interesting the my laptop, new and never exposed to a version of Photoshop PRIOR to CS5, printed magenta when I tested.  It started life with W7 64-bit, had CS5 and LR3 installed, and to test I just added the 2200.  Plugged in directly and got.............................

MAGENTA PRINTS..........

One of these days I'll take it, and a magenta image to a friend that has a 2880 and print on her printer.  She's one of the many people that's asked me about CS5 and/or LR3, and after hearing how it's gone, decided NOT to upgrade.  Hers is printing perfectly with CS4.

[Guest]

Once upon a time, long before Adobe got waaayyy to big for it’s britches and had customer service, they would have jumped through hoops to find a solution to a problem that caused this many PROFESSIONALS so much time and materials, which translates to BIG $$$$$, trying to correct ourselves.

It’s obvious that whatever the problem is, downloading CS5 and/or LR3 corrupts SOMETHING in the system.  In my eyes, that is Adobe’s problem and they should find out the cause and fix it. 

Hmmm, Corel products are looking better and better to me for basic photo editing and printing.

[Hudechrome]

Well, then, how come my installation works perfectly well?

Win7 64 bit CS5 Epson 3800.

Adobe picks and chooses who it messes up, I suppose.

[Hudechrome]

I only use the print preview to assure that the print is centered properly. If the display is actually right on for color and luminosity, I know something is wrong, usually double profiled, because the viewer is seeing the result of the color shifts applied to match the paper to the expected output. Magenta shift and a lighter overall presentation is common.

I am speaking of the final preview before printing actually commences.

[NWphotodev]

Dave & Dave in MN (from a former Minnesotan! ) & others following the saga --

Well, it looks like our magenta issue was resolved with the re-install/update of our Epson driver.  Prints from both LR3 and PS CS5 XT have come out as expected. Still get our magenta print previews but the prints are turning out fine.

So at this point it looks like it's possibly a separate issue than your's Dave.  I also noted (I think?) that you showed magenta when having the print driver controlling CM (printer manages colors) which is different from what we'd seen initially -- in our case the print driver managing color gave reasonable (tho not optimal) color without the tinge.

We thought of another possible test that may help to isolate the issue -- of course with Dave from Arden Hills offering troubleshooting assistance this is probably already considered. Anyway, it may be worthwhile just connecting up with another computer to see if that other computer gets reasonable prints through your SP2200 or if something triggered a color management meltdown/failure of some sort in the printer's code or it's translation of the information being sent to it. That might explain a situation where we both see a magenta problem, but in your printer's case the problem caused a printer logic/CM failure. Just a thought.

We're interested too in whatever is determined to be the culprit to hopefully avoid a similar scenario or a repeat of what we've experienced.

Jeff -- you mention the "Epson Common Updater" -- to clarify, that's just for Mac isn't it? It doesn't ring a bell for us with Windows (Vista) & the SP2200 and a quick google seems to point that direction. Just want to make sure we're not missing out on an easier way for keeping the driver updated.

Hope that more light is shining on the issue for those still experiencing magenta...

- Bonnie

[Jeff Schewe]

NWphotodev wrote:

Jeff -- you mention the "Epson Common Updater" -- to clarify, that's just for Mac isn't it? It doesn't ring a bell for us with Windows (Vista) & the SP2200 and a quick google seems to point that direction. Just want to make sure we're not missing out on an easier way for keeping the driver updated.

Correct...that was for the Mac guy complaining. Epson released the Epson Common Updater both as a stand alone installer as well as part of I believe the OS X 10.6.3 update. Sorry, that won't help your issue (although it does seem to address 76/9600 and 2200 Mac users).

Which is actually a point I was trying to make...trying to interject platform in a single thread really interferes with ability to keep thread on topic (not to mention that rants help nobody).

[DavePinMinn]

Hi Bonnie,

>Well, it looks like our  magenta issue was resolved with the re-install/update of our Epson  driver.  Prints from both LR3 and PS CS5 XT have come out as expected.  Still get our magenta print previews but the prints are turning out  fine.

Interesting.  Do I recall correctly that you were originally using 5.92 and did the re-install to 5.91?  I uninstalled 5.91 and reinstalled 5.91 and it didn't help, but I'm curious whether a different version might provide different results.

>So at this point it looks  like it's possibly a separate issue than your's Dave.  I also noted (I  think?) that you showed magenta when having the print driver controlling  CM (printer manages colors) which is different from what we'd seen  initially -- in our case the print driver managing color gave reasonable  (tho not optimal) color without the tinge.

Yes.  Again, as I recall (it's been more than 4 days, so I've now forgotten everything I did), I tried printing with NO Photoshop color management and using the printer to do the management, which selected the SP2200 Glossy profile.  They were magenta.

>We thought of another  possible test that may help to isolate the issue -- of course with Dave  from Arden Hills offering troubleshooting assistance this is probably  already considered. Anyway, it may be worthwhile just connecting up with  another computer to see if that other computer gets reasonable prints  through your SP2200 or if something triggered a color management  meltdown/failure of some sort in the printer's code or it's translation  of the information being sent to it. That might explain a situation  where we both see a magenta problem, but in your printer's case the  problem caused a printer logic/CM failure. Just a thought.

I did that - actually tried two other computers.  I installed the printer on my laptop, which is also running W7 64-bit and has never had any Photoshop EXCEPT CS5, then printed with the same results.  But, of course, I was using the 5.91 driver.  In retrospect, it would have been interesting to try printing BEFORE I installed the Epson driver - the system recognized the printer, so I could have tried it, but didn't think about it and just went straight through and put the Epson software on.  In any case, no difference.

I believe you, or someone mentioned the idea of using a second printer from the same system.  I SHOULD have the 2880 Thursday, so I'll be able to try both sort-of side-by-side.  If I get magenta prints from the 2880 I'm just going to find something sharp and jab it in my eye - it'll be less painful!

Then I tried one of my backup boxes.  Put CS5 on as an evaluation - DID NOT install Lightroom so that's out of the equation, and did the same thing for printing.  This box is running XP Pro 32-bit.  Again, I plugged both boxes directly into the  printer so there was no issue with the remote install (just in case)...  Got the same result.  So, it appears no matter what box I use, I get the same result.  Either I'm doing something REALLY dumb, or there's a problem that isn't related to Lightroom 3.

NOW, to further muddy the waters - I'm waiting for cartridges so I can't actually print right now (I can't believe it, but I have at least 30 carts and NO light magenta), BUT I processed an image in CS5, then saved a jpeg.  Then I opened it in the MS Office Picture Manager (or whatever it is).  Then printed from there.  I can't go to the printer, but I went all the way to the preview from the print driver - my PREVIEW WAS NOT MAGENTA.  Once

I get the stuff and a little time, I'll have to try printing from the MS thing.....  I DID print from Word early on in this whole saga, and the print was NOT magenta.

We're interested too in  whatever is determined to be the culprit to hopefully avoid a similar  scenario or a repeat of what we've experienced.

Jeff -- you mention the  "Epson Common Updater" -- to clarify, that's just for Mac isn't it? It  doesn't ring a bell for us with Windows (Vista) & the SP2200 and a  quick google seems to point that direction. Just want to make sure we're  not missing out on an easier way for keeping the driver updated.

Hope that more light is  shining on the issue for those still experiencing magenta...

- Bonnie

[NWphotodev]

Dave & Dave --

I *thought* I was using 5.92 -- but that's likely not the case since the version I was reporting was from the "Epson Color Printing System" (printer properties > version information) which doesn't directly report the driver version. I'm 95% certain from my backup files & notes that the driver was the 5.91 version. So I was wrong about it being newer. Sorry.

One thing different between my 'reinstall' & yours is that I didn't uninstall the driver. I just reinstalled (ran) the newest Epson driver download and that has seemed to resolve things. Of course too, I'm running Vista 32-bit and you're in 64-bit mode which adds another factor to the mix.

I did have one instance where the print preview was not it's usual magenta. I think that was when I did a print test using the printer driver to color manage (vs. PS or LR). If that's the case then it makes sense it would display as it should because all the CM is coming thru the driver versus another app. Not sure if that's actually the case, but...

You've tried so many things, it seems to me to point to something different about your printer. That's not to say that something else didn't cause that, but it seems suspicious that the printer is magenta with a different computer too.

During this saga I've taken a bunch of screen shots of the dialogs (PS, LR, & Epson driver) so that I could refer back to the settings I used (and not rely on possibly fuzzy memory or incomplete notes). I've done that less since I've managed a few non-tinged prints, but I do have some that may be helpful if you want a comparison set to look for any gremlin that got into the settings -- I know I'm not immune to them managing to sneak into some process I was sure I had right... Anyway, let me know if that would be of help.

...Just re-read your post and thought of something else that I poked around, in part for familiarization, in part to see if I had some odd setting where I didn't realize it was there. Have you looked at Vista's color management settings for the printer? I don't have them in front of me right now, but it seems theres one that allows the app to override what the OS has as its default -- i.e. app controls CM vs OS.

I also noted you've removed the OS as a factor to an extent as well with the XP 32-bit test. So the OS CM setting probably isn't a factor for your Vista 64-bit printing -- or at least I wouldn't think so given that XP 32-bit was magenta too.

Not sure who suggested the 2nd printer from the same system, but that could help get things going. That would be a different driver and hardware and may tie in to different software logic in PS. Dave & the adobe folks would know better how that fits in, but if I remember right Chris said something about older drivers which leads me to think there's possibly a split in the way PS communicates with them versus newer print drivers. Of course I could be way off on that too -- just guessing at what's "under the covers" I guess.

Regardless hopefully Thursday leads to good printing and no eye jabs!

- Bonnie