Printing magenta/red with CS5

[DavePinMinn]

OK, I have a bizarre situation, and I'm sure I"m missing something obvious.......

I've been using Photoshop for ages, and my Epson 2200 likewise, for ages. Everything is calibrated and my prints have been good, again for ages...  I converted to Windows 7 Professional last October, recalibrated, everything fine.

In April I upgraded from CS4 to CS5.  Club year was over so I didn't need to print anything for a little while.  Several weeks ago I printed some images and they came out magenta.  I ignored it and got caught up in other stuff.  More recently I needed to print an image I've printed before, and again, it came out quite magenta.......

I KNOW, back in the "old" days, this was an indication that I was managing color in both Photoshop and the printer.  But, by any figuring I can do, I'm ABSOLUTELY not doing the printing any differently than I was in CS4.  I"m setting the color management in Photoshop, and when I get to the printer dialog I'm ABSOLUTELY telling it to use ICM and NO COLOR MANAGEMENT........  I've tried different settings, different images, and different papers,

and things are still magenta.  I've done a nozzle check, which was perfect.  I've even CLEANED the print head, even though things looked fine.  I've rebooted the computer, cycled the printer on and off, said incantations, searched (in vain) for a virgin to sacrifice, and even PRINTED DIRECTLY from Lightroom V3, just to see if that'd many a difference.  I'm out of ideas.......

Does ANYBODY know of something that's bizarrely different in CS5 that'd cause this situation?

I"m about to reinstall CS4, just ot see if I get magenta prints there too, even though I never have before........

[DavePinMinn]

2880 is out of the box, set up, and printing.....................

NOT MAGENTA!

I have some work to do (I'll obsess over getting things JUST RIGHT with this printer the same way I did with the 2200) to

get optimal prints, but at least there's not color shift.

I'll fiddle with the 2200 next week.

[NWphotodev]

Bravo! That's great news Dave!

Here's to some great prints ahead.

For the SP2200 seems that still points to something messing with the color managing after CS5 is set to color manage -- whatever 'under the covers' path that takes between CS5/Epson driver/OS/printer.

Will look forward to hearing more as time allows.

- Bonnie

[Guest]

Here is a older forum post concerning the 2200 with Magenta cast problems. There are several fixes further in the replys. Maybe this will help and maybe not. But there has been problems since 2003.

Darn, the link didn't show up........ hold on.

http://photo.net/digital-darkroom-forum/005Wtn

[Noel Carboni]

davepinminn wrote:

2880 is out of the box, set up, and printing.....................

NOT MAGENTA!

Woohoo!

To be honest I was kind of sweating, in that I worked so hard to get you to spend your money on it.

-Noel

[DavePinMinn]

Chuckle!

Not to worry.  Before I ordered the 2880 I went to a friend that has one, took my laptop with CS5 on it, and tested a couple prints

that are magenta on the 2200.  So, I was pretty confident it wouldn't be magenta....  I've got to get some better profiles and such,

'cause things are rather muddy, and the 2880 prints the identical file quite a bit lighter than the 2200, but I should be able to get

that worked out.  I"ll get 'hold of a Color Munki next week and try some profiling.

[DavePinMinn]

I finally had a chance to play today...................

Put in the new light magenta cartridge, did a cleaning just so things are "right", then printed Mr. Owl.......  Who's been MAGENTA.................

He still is...........

Printed on the 2880 he ISN'T...  Going from the same CS5, and the same .psd file, one is magenta, the other not.......

SO, I saved the owl as a jpeg, opened it in Microsoft Picture Manager and printed it.  I"m not sure how smart that application is, or where it figures out what it's going to do, but it prints.  and although he looks a little bland and muted, Mr. Owl isn't magenta..............................

SO, just for giggles I pulled out the colormunki and did a profile on the 2200 for the Epson Glossy Photo Paper I've been using.

Printed again from CS5 and specified MY profile.  Mr. Owl now looks as good as he did back when I was using the generic profile and CS4...  I have the other print to compare...

Unfortunately, we've started the remodel on the family room, and I'm not going to have the time to mess with the 2200.  The 2880 is working fine, and I"m going to sell the 2200 to someone that ISN'T planning to upgrade to CS5.

[NWphotodev]

Dave --

Glad you're getting good prints with the new printer.

I'm curious -- you mention printing specifying your custom color munki profile and getting close to generic CS4 prints from CS5. That's with the 2200 right?

What had you been using for the profile before that when you printed from the 2200?

It just strikes me that perhaps there's a profile that's corrupt? Since output profiles are device specific (and paper and ink specific) if the image's color numbers aren't being properly translated to the proper colors in the printer then maybe it's the translator -- the profile? Just a thought.

We're still getting decent prints from our CS5 / SP2200 combo, so it's possible. In our case something corrupted the print driver, which once reinstalled over the original corrupted driver, we were back in business. (-- Until of course one of our D5's mirror detached... but that's another Canon saga... ugh... Gilda Radner was right -- it's always something... Just with it was always something good!!)

Anyway, hope you have many years of great printing on the new one. It'd be nice to know though what the cause of the problem is -- Dave P. or Chris C. any more ideas?

Happy printing.

- Bonnie

[Dave_Polaschek2]

Anyway, hope you have many years of great printing on the new one. It'd be nice to know though what the cause of the problem is -- Dave P. or Chris C. any more ideas?

My best guess is that either the profile or the driver preferences got corrupted, but I thought Dave had cleared everything out. If he were using a Mac, I'd ask him to look at the profile with ColorSync Utility.app and see if that found anything in the profile to complain about, but I'm not aware of free tools on Windows to check the profile.

Plus, with the new profile, it sounds as if everything is good.

Dave has my email address, and if he'd like to send me the old (magenta) profile, I'll be happy to take a look at it.

[DavePinMinn]

Thanks guys.....  I forged my way through the obstacle course (who would have BELIEVED we had so much stuff in the family room), and have arrived at my office chair - fortunately the desk in here is "U" shaped and my chair's in the middle.  I'll be fine as long as I don't try to get out of here!

Bonnie,

I thought about profiles earlier, and I completely removed all the files on the system.  Did an uninstall then went through directories just to make SURE there weren't any hanging around.  Then I RE-downloaded from Epson and reinstalled.  It didn't make any difference.  THEN, I took my laptop, which hadn't had any printers installed and did an installation there.  The laptop had CS5 and LR3 on it, but had never had any other versions of either.  Same magenta printing.

So this time when I started fiddling with the 2200 I started with the Epson Glossy photo paper profile using the Epson Glossy photo paper.  When that was still magenta I tried MS photo manager and it wasn't magenta.  I'd done something similar early on by saving a jpeg from CS5 then printing it from Word.  Not magenta.......

SO, just for giggles I went ahead and created a profile with the colormunki for the 2200 and printed.  The owl image looked very much - to my eye virtually identical - to what I got prior to CS5 when using the generic Epson 2200 profile......

But, if the profile was corrupt, wouldn't I get a non-magenta print when I DON'T let CS5 do the color management?  Let the printer just use whatever thing the printer driver wanted?  I believe when I did that I tried both sRGB and Adobe RGB as well as a profile called "Epson 2200 photo" (at least that's what I THINK it was called) that I don't see in the list of drivers for Photoshop.  It only seems to be there when I set it in the printer driver.....

Anyhow, they were all magenta.  BUT, since I KNOW the printer can work with CS5, I'm thinking if I sell it, whoever buys it won't have whatever I have goofed up, goofed up.......  And they'll get fine prints.  At least that's what I'm hoping...

Dave, I'll send you an email with the profile attached.  Maybe something interesting will show up for you.....

And now, I must once again brave the path to enlightenment, making my way through the obstacle course, so I can paint the giant radiator...  I'm not kidding - this thing is cast iron, 40" high, almost 6' long, and has 24 cores.....  Weighs almost 1000 pounds.  To move it from it's normal location to the middle of the room where I could take the 100+ years of old paint off, we used a come-along!  I took pictures...

[paul675]

I have a new Canon Pro9000 that exhibited this problem and tracked it down to having Print with Preview turned on in the Printer's dialog box.  If this is turned off the problem goes away.  The problem appears to be common to both Epson and Canon printers, as noted on Red River's web site where they have the following bulletin:

"When using any ICC profile with Photoshop, DO NOT use your printer drivers print with preview function. We are NOT talking about Photoshop print with preview! We are referring to the printer software preview function that is available on most printers. Photoshop's print with preview is necessary to use profiles and should provide you a sufficent view of what the print will look like. Using the Epson or Canon print with preview may cause your prints to come out with a pink hue."

I hope this helps others trying to solve this problem

Paul

[Hudechrome]

Not true here on the Epson 3800.

[paul675]

>> Not true here on the Epson 3800 <<

Yes, it would appear that it's a problem that's not present in all printer drivers - which doubtless contributes to the problem of sourcing the cause.

Paul

[Hudechrome]

In fact it isn't present in any printer I have ever used, from the Epson 870 (It did do pink casts but wasn't the viewer), to the 9600 to the 3800, Epson Workforce and two Canon 13x19 models. No print problems with any of them have been fixed by turning off the viewer. I have run these printers on many different platforms, on OS from Win 98SE to Win 7. So the problem is coming down to specific installations. In no way can a valid conclusion be reached that printer preview functions cause pink casts. I have falsified that notion. The basic position is that "It has been observed that with my system, turning off the printer preview eliminated a pink cast in my prints". Suggesting that this step be checked as a part of trouble shooting is valid. To suggest a universal cure for all printers of whatever make is absurd.

I use the viewer to catch any error in print sizing or position I occasionally make, although with CS5 on Win7 64, it isn't as necessary as earlier installations. If you are using profiles with Photoshop in control, the viewer presents a rather obvious difference in color and value and is not representative of the final outcome on Epsons. In fact, if the image looks correct at that point, I did screw up, usually double profiling. But if the printer manages colors, then that final view should resemble the print. Again for the Epsons.

[paul675]

That supports what I said then - it only seems to affect some printers and, although you've not experienced the problem with your Epson's, judging by Red River's bulletin, it is not exclusive to Canon.  I thought I'd mention what I'd found in this thread because it seemed relevent and may help others if they experience the pink colour cast.

[Hudechrome]

Then I would suspect some other path common to both. Essentially, it would be PS and the OS, versions etc come into play. I wouldn't be shocked if it also was video, but I would be mildly surprised!

Nah! Shocked is a better word for it!

Apologies for being a bit edgy this morning. Should never respond so early and w/o tons of coffee!

[Dave_Polaschek2]

Thanks for the update, Paul. I'll add that to the list of things I need to discuss with Canon. Seems to me as though simply previewing the image shouldn't change the color management, but it's nice to know that it does in some drivers.

[paul675]

>>  I'll add that to the list of things I need to discuss with Canon <<

Dave, it's nice to see that this has reached the eyes and ears of someone who can take it further.  Thank you.

Paul

[PECourtejoie]

Dave, did you try bringing the printer to your friend's location, and see what it gives on a machine that never had CS5?

[DavePinMinn]

When I still had the 2200, I did several things to chase the problem...

I tried re-installing CS4 on my desktop.  Still magenta.

I tried printing from my laptop, which also has CS5.  Magenta.

I tried printing from one of my backup systems, running XP that had never had CS5 until I installed it to test.  Magenta.

I took the file and my laptop over to a friend with a 2880 and printed it.  NOT magenta.

So, I replaced the 2200 with a 2880 and things have been fine ever since...

I sold the 2200 to a person that's not using CS5, and is one of the many photographers I know that isn't going to upgrade.

So, I "solved" the problem, but it was using the brute-force and massive ignorance system of sledghammering it......

[gunnerholmes]

Well, that's one way to solve it. Why not get the 2900? Anyone have any feedback on that machine?

[gunnerholmes]

I meant the 1900, not the 2900 if there is such an animal as a 2900.

[Dave_Polaschek2]

Thanks for the update, Bonnie. Good to hear you got it working.

[OldRhind]

I hasd PS 7 for many years and printed without any problems whatsoever using a Canon i960, in fact it worked "out of the box and I never gave it much thought. The Canon PixmaPro 9000 worked as well and as easily. I upgraded first to CS3, then hearing about how much better CS5 was I recently "upgraded" to CS5. That's when my printing woes started. (I posted "Colour profiles have me baffled" in this forum.) I didn't have a colour cast, but the prints were dark and dingy, sunlit scenes which looked right in the preview printed as though taken in deep shade. I ran out of paper trying to get it right, and would have run out of money too if I'd kept at it. In the end the only way to get "reasonably acceptable prints was to get CS5 out of the loop and let the printer handle everything. If I'd known what was in store I'd never have upgraded.

David (the old one)

[paul675]

They call it progress but, as so often happens, it seems to be two steps forward and one step back.

Paul

[gunnerholmes]

Had the same problem that I have just spent the last 4 days trying to correct. Didn't know it was a problem until I tried to print a known  "good" image file.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

Mine not only had color correction problems, but at one point I didn't have a print driver at all. I even followed some links in Epsons Web Site for 10.6 and that didn't work. So I did what I have cut n'pasted into this post.

One other thing that help me to get verrry close to monitor color is to always use the Image>Proof Setup>sRGB12345678, and then go to the next choice down the pull-down menu to "Proof Colors" and select that.  Once I get to the print window I then insure that I have the following settings in place:

Printer, Epson Stylus Photo

Color Management, Proof

Color Handling, Photoshop handles color

Printer Profile, SP2200 Premuim Glossy

Proof Setup, sRGB12345678

That gets me so close as to be near perfect. On some images I need to tweak my contrast on the monitor, maybe it's my old eyes or something. I will be 75 in February.

I talked with Epson Tech Support and they were quite helpful and took all the time I needed which was considerably since he didn't speck with good enough enunciation for my slightly hard of hearing obstacle.

______________________________________________________________________________________

Having said all that I am going to cut n'paste what he said to me and also followed up with in an email F.Y.I. Please notice what driver version he told me to download compared to the version I had before my  Printer Driver was v8.27. Now it's v8.12.

"Thank you for taking the time to contact Epson. It is my pleasure to respond to your inquiry.

Here are the steps to resolve your issue:

1. Go to System Preference > Print & Fax.

2. Highlight the Epson printer and click - to delete.

3. Go to MAC HD > Library > Printers.

4. Drag the whole Epson Folder to the trash.

5. Go to Epson.com and download the Printer Driver v8.12 from your printer's support site.

6. Install the driver.

7. Once installed restart the computer.

8. Once restarted, make sure the printer is on and connected. Go to System Preference > Print & Fax.

9. Make sure the printer is on the list.

Try printing again."

One other thing that he told me about was how to reset the printing system. It goes something like this:

It just involves going into System Prefs. and select the PRINT & FAX control panel. Then while holding down the mouse over the printer name in the left hand "chooser" column press the "control" key. As you have that combination held down a text balloon comes up giving one options, such as "Rest the printing system" or "Make default."

I think that after doing that one will need to go thru the re-choosing of the printer bit as above, as well, as reboot, always reboot.

I hope that this helps someone along the way.