PS 2015.5 - Refine Edge tool? Missing?

[EG-Design]

Hi,

With the new update of Photoshop it appears that the Refine Edge tool has been removed or changed into something else?
Anyone shed some light on this? Its a tool that I would always use to quickly adjust my selections when editing photography.

Closest tool I can see that looks the same and is in the same location as the Refine Edge tool is Select and Mask. This is under the right click of the selection.

Cheers,

Adam.

EG Design

[Davos2]

This is insane! Why would they retire this incredibly useful tool. I used it constantly

[Terri_Stevens]

watch the video-all is not lost

[polskey]

I don't have time to watch this now - can someone please tell me how to uninstall this upgrade ASAP - I am also in the middle of a project - had to upgrade because Bridge kept crashing - but I don't have time to learn the new software right now - also you need to re-train your brain.

Argghhhhhh - help please

[illgloryf72118676]

because that started to spaz out and Make Edges more Transparent

At least for me it did that. Might as well just invest in TOPAZ Program for solid edge refinements

[IkonaPhoto]

The thing that pisses me off is that Adobe, in their infinite wisdom, has totally screwed up my workflow. I wouldn't be so friggin' pissed if they had overlapped them for a release so that I could have more than, oh, NO FRIGGIN' TIME AT ALL to learn a new tool and completely overhaul by workflow. Way to think of your customers first, Adobe...NOT!

[Terri_Stevens]

why don't you re-install the previous version? Its perfectly possible to have both on the system. I don't blame Adobe as much as you because to some extent you are guilty of not reading the instructions before installing, had you done that you would have found the checkbox in the advanced installation section and the new version would not have removed 2015.1.2. There's an onus on professionals to not just jump in with eyes closed and prey Adobe have got everything right. Prudence is the order of the day with software and changing to a new version of a program in the middle of a project is not in my opinion that professional or smart IkonaPhoto

[KathrynKolencik]

Well now, hasn't this conversation grown to a heated debate?  To those who insist I should have read something or done something before upgrading, I have had a terrible history with CC so I've tried to be more consistent with upgrading.  As for reading instructions, really?  Are you kidding me?  Writing in some document that you're going to pull an entire feature with no overlap does not mean it's now good software development practice.  As for going back to the previous version, my plan was to try to grab it on my personal PC over the weekend and make what I need with Refine Edge but alas, the Fourth of July distracted me more than it should have.  That's why I haven't gone back to the previous version.  I probably won't since I have two versions available to me.

Photoshopping images is not my primary role in my position.  Not even close.  Adobe does offer software for my main function, but I intentionally chose not to purchase it because this change-it-on-the-fly and shove-it-down-your-throat software model just will not work for me when it comes to the Real Work.  I don't know about you guys, but I am always in the middle of a big project. 

For the kind-of-heart, I'm just trying to take a quote from a fancy pants expert and make it more personal so it relates more to my audience.  I thought I'd throw an image in there.  To align with the design of my project, though, I need to remove the background.  I was only able to find a couple of images of this guy (Haim Ginott if you're curious).  I really like this one, but the B&W is killing me. Since I have loads of other work to do, I just need to leave the quote without the image and move on.  I watched some videos and used "trial and error" which ended up being mostly error...I can see where it's a neat tool for the stuff I normally do, but this is more tricky for me.

I'll just agree to disagree with all the Adobe Lovers out there who think this decision was just swell and delivered in an awesome manner.  😕  And I'm making peace with the fact that I'm just not a Photoshop master.  *sigh*  On to my week!

[Terri_Stevens]

I tried to have a look at your image Kathryn but there is a DNS problem, are you sure the link is valid.

[KathrynKolencik]

Hmm.  I'm not sure why that didn't work.  I copy/pasted it right from the URL.  If you do a Google Image search for Haim Ginott, I actually like both the second and the third.  He's a lot less fuzzy in that second image...wonder if I could make that work...

[KathrynKolencik]

Heyyyyyy, I don't know why that other image didn't show up in my search Friday, but I was able to get it to work with minimal effort.  Yay!  Thorn removed from lion's paw.  Thank you!  Dr. Ginott is now a real person. 

[Terri_Stevens]

Well done Androcles. Strangely I saw that film on Sunday I am finding also some images really become easy with this new tool whereas others are totally impossible. We need to remember this is a first release and you can bet Adobe although not officially commenting here are noting a lot of people are having a lot of trouble with Select and Mask.

[KathrynKolencik]

Thank you. 

Since you're probably right, here is my official two cents:

1. Work on hairy man images on a soft B&W background.  The new tool went all haywire and I couldn't even get close.  (Workaround:  I found an image of him where he shaved.  Just a wee bit of haywire but it was manageable.)

2. Still not a fan of dumping an entire feature in one fell swoop.  If I had read something that would have emotionally prepared me, I probably still would have updated because I couldn't have imagined it being worse than what was there.  I also could not have anticipated that Haim Ginott would be so stinking furry.

3. While squinting to see if that's the Mona Lisa in Terri's profile image, I decided to click on it.  That's when I realized that your user summary page has a grammatical issue.  It's not "Terri Stevens's" but rather "Terri Stevens'" - gotta love the possessive with names that end in s.  Just a little note from a former software tester.  Yes, we are pesky, aren't we?  Can't be helped.  😕

Back to it.

[Pat481]

If I had to take an uniformed guess on the reason the app is so clunky and unintuitive in places I would say it is because Adobe is scared to change things lest they get this response. We need to accept that our apps need to change, just demand that the changes are worth the extra time investment and are intuitive enough that we don't need to watch a video to learn how to use them. I learnt all the basic features of logic pro in three or four youtube videos, any adobe app has taken up dozens of hours of videos. Thats not ok. Again, it's because apple wasn't scared to scrap the old interface and competent enough to design a new one that was comparatively painless to learn. I feel like we should never demand that a software vendor doesn't change anything, for our own sakes and for the sake of people just starting out also.

[Benjamin Root]

Hmm, perhaps that is why the 2015.5 release, rather than 2016. Could the future CC 2017 be entirely redesigned? Interesting idea to ponder.. I guess we'll know next year!

[Kevin.F]

The keyboard shortcut still works, CTRL+SHIFT+R, though it's no longer called Refine Edge, just the vague 'Properties'  However, when I check Remember Settings, it no longer remembers that I want to Output To: Layer Mask.

[Klizzama]

Thanks for sharing! I had to keep two versions of Photoshop, the 2017 and cs6, but to my disadvantage, they conflict with each other... Let's hope Adobe reincorporates this ability to fine tune... for instance, as it currently is, it does not work on white over white...

[kobawsky]

WHat? Seriously?

[Benjamin Root]

Yes, seriously.

I did use the new Select and Mask tool on a project yesterday and it worked well. It takes a little getting used to, but the features aren't entirely different.

[rockyv6]

And they couldn't just ADD this new feature instead of DELETING the Refine Edge option? Thanks for getting rid of something that helped increase my workflow, Adobe. Real nice.

[Benjamin Root]

Try it out. I was a little surprised myself, but it has not changed that much.

[Conrad C]

Benjamin Root wrote:

Try it out. I was a little surprised myself, but it has not changed that much.

Exactly. There doesn't seem to be much reason to panic, and I think "retired" and "missing" are not accurate ways to describe it. Select and Mask is largely the same as Refine Edge, but enhanced.

If you liked using Refine Edge features like Radius, Smart Radius, Feather, Decontaminate Colors…they are all still there in Select and Mask. They have not been retired at all.

If you liked selecting with the Pen tool, it's still right there in the Tools panel, as it always has been. You can still use the Pen tool as the starting point for a selection that you then move into Select and Mask, exactly as you used to do with Refine Edge. I think they changed the name from Refine Edge to Select and Mask because you aren't just refining an edge anymore, you can also create new Quick Selection-like selections while inside it. The new name does also clarify that it can also produce a mask from a selection.

rockyv6 wrote:

And they couldn't just ADD this new feature instead of DELETING the Refine Edge option? Thanks for getting rid of something that helped increase my workflow, Adobe. Real nice.

But adding and not deleting is actually what they did here. Select and Mask has mostly the same Refine Edge features, but adds new selection features so you can save a few steps. It's an improvement, and when you look closer, nothing was really "deleted".

[ir_jl]

Unfortunately Select and Mask doesn't work on masks attached to adjustment layers, fill layers and folders anymore. Since the update in only works with masks attached to pixel layers. That's annoying. I used it often to optimize the masks of all my layers.

Right now I have to move the mask to a pixel layer to refine it and then back to the adjustment layer. Unnecessary workaround...

[masonm65155230]

"Enhanced"

[Terri_Stevens]

What they have done is make Refine Edge a stand alone module within Photoshop for masking, you can even make your selection within the module itself. You are now creating a selection not merely polishing an existing one. Everything that was there before is retained but crucially there are new things to make masking complex objects easier. Take a look at the 'Onion Skin ' view mode. This is a tremendous aid and something I have never seen even in the very expensive plugins-although its bound to be copied. It shows Adobe is still capable of actual innovation and Select and Mask is a big step forward.

Given all that I think its fair to rename the old refine mask. Watch the video I posted above or the Scott Kelby one below that shows what can be done when masking hair. Alright he's gone the easy route and used a subject on a grey background but its still impressive.

How to Mask Hair Using Photoshop's New "Select and Mask" Feature - YouTube

[ir_jl]

I agree, Terri I like the new more sophisticated tool. It's a lot more convenient for masking complex elements.

But I see no reason why they disabled the possibility to use it on masks attached to adjustment layers, folders etc. whle it works on masks attached to pixel layers.