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PS CS5 10-bit video under Open GL on Mac OS??

New Here ,
Oct 11, 2010 Oct 11, 2010

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Dear Adobe:

I have been working with the engineers at Eizo for the past year in trying to get the Eizo CG 243w monitor to work at 10-bits per color plane via mini displayport to displayport connection while using the 4870 graphics card on a Mac Pro.

Eizo re-wrote the firmware for the CG 243w to be compatible with the mini displayport standard released by Apple. As of this past summer, the CG 243w now interconnects with the 4870 graphics card to the monitor, while hosted on a Mac Pro under 10.6.

BUT in using Adobe's on test image, it is obvious that the display is still not working at 10-bits per color plane, as banding is showing.

Would you please clearly state whether Adobe Photoshop CS5 in the current version is capable of driving the 4870 graphics card and displaying 10-bits per color plane images using the MacPro and current OS? We need to know where the bottleneck is coming from---Adobe, Apple, AMD.

It is frustrating that Windows users have successfully been able to use Photoshop CS5 with a handful of different graphics cards and a large number of Eizo 10-bit monitors for a long time and it still appears that Mac users, known for being graphic intensive, cannot. We really need help getting to the bottom of this. Adobe Labs might be cranking out some fun new product, but functionality of a key issue for Photoshop would seem to be higher priority---and 10-bits per color plane seems like it would be one such issue.

cheers,

Pete

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replies 113 Replies 113
Oct 11, 2010 Oct 11, 2010

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For video cards that support 10 bit/channel output, Apple already enabled it in their graphics driver update.

Photoshop CS5 has been capable, and waiting on the OS and drivers to finalize support.

I'm not sure where the disconnect is on your card and system.  But Apple is the only one with all the answers here.

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New Here ,
Oct 11, 2010 Oct 11, 2010

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Hi Chris:

I am still not clear. Are you saying that PS CS5 for Mac is already to go with 10-bits per color plane under Open GL---its just sitting there waiting to go---but Apple has not provided the driver update? Or are you saying that a driver update was already issued by Apple and should have already taken care of my own problem and I should be good to go if I can find the write driver update?

The engineers at Eizo in Japan have confirmed the same thing that I have seen on my own system---10bits is not working for them either. Did we miss something on a release from Apple? Every one is using the same config of MacPRO 4.1, 4870 card, OS 10.6, PS CS5.

Sorry, we have been running this problem around in a circle for an entire year, and its still not working. Eizo obviously had a firmware problem and it took six months to get that cleared up. But now we are at the next level it simply is not clear where the bottleneck is to getting 10-bits to go live.

Pete

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Oct 11, 2010 Oct 11, 2010

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Photoshop is ready to go and Apple has already provided a driver update to enable it.

Unfortunately, they didn't tell us about that, so we were caught by surprise.

There may still be a firmware or driver issue.

We'll have to corral our GL engineer and one of our EIZO displays to do some testing.    I think our initial testing was on an NEC.

And until we get a list of supported devices and configs from Apple, we don't know exactly what does and doesn't work, only that it works in some cases.

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New Here ,
Oct 11, 2010 Oct 11, 2010

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Hi Chris:

If you can contact me by private email (just google search "Pete Myers" and use my website contact tab to start with) I will put you and the team in touch with the USA Vice President of Eizo. I am sure he would lend you a monitor and provide full technical support from Japan. They are keen on getting over the bump, and I think it will be helpful for all.

Most grateful. We are so close!

Pete

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Oct 11, 2010 Oct 11, 2010

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Pete - I may take you up on that, depending on what we find out.

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New Here ,
Oct 11, 2010 Oct 11, 2010

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Yes, please do! I am "the go between" in the pipe with Eizo in getting this problem resolved. I just wrote the VP that we are all in strinking distance, but that Adobe may need to borrow a CG 243w and get support from the Eizo engineers as needed.

I think we can do this! Please contact me when your ready.

Pete

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Oct 11, 2010 Oct 11, 2010

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Must... resist... temptation... to... borrow... EIZO.... for.... self!

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Oct 11, 2010 Oct 11, 2010

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Actually, I'm pretty sure we have one already.

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New Here ,
Oct 11, 2010 Oct 11, 2010

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Ah yes, but do you have one with the new firmware upgrade?

See, I tempt you!

Without the firmware upgrade (not available on their website, but only in calling tech support), the mouse will jitter and it will be unusable in mini displayport to displayport mode.

Pete

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Oct 11, 2010 Oct 11, 2010

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Good point, I have no idea if we have the firmware upgrade or not.

I'll have to ask when I get to the office tomorrow.

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New Here ,
Oct 12, 2010 Oct 12, 2010

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I have a new NEC monitor which is advertised as 10-bit capable, but I have not been able to get this feature working, either.  The components are:

Mac Pro 1,1 (first generation, 2006), with 6GB RAM

Mac OS X 10.6.4, and all current updates

ATI Radeon HD 5770

NEC PA271W

Photoshop CS5 Extended, all current updates, configured for OpenGL display, advanced mode

For testing, I am using the ramp.psd gradient image from the AMD website.

Photoshop correctly identifies this as a high-bit file (16-bit mode), but it displays with easily visible banding.  It appears the same if I use a DVI cable (which only carries 8-bits/channel).

I've spoken to a tier 2 support rep at NEC, and he told me that the above components should be able to provide a 10-bit data path.  I'm using the DisplayPort cable that came with the monitor, and a MiniDisplay Port to DisplayPort adapter (dongle) from Monoprice.  NEC claims that this combination should work, although they are warning that there are other cables on the market which do not meet DisplayPort spec.

Am I missing something, or is this 10-bit support still a work in progress?

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Oct 12, 2010 Oct 12, 2010

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10 bit is sort of a work in progress.

See the previous posts in this topic.

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New Here ,
Oct 12, 2010 Oct 12, 2010

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Yes, I saw your comment that Adobe is still waiting for a list of supported devices and configs from Apple.  For those of us who are interested in this issue, Is there any formal mechanism (other than posts in forums like this) for reporting to Apple and Adobe which configs are working and which are not?  Should we file bug reports?  Or must we just wait to see which configs are tested and blessed by the developers?

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Oct 12, 2010 Oct 12, 2010

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You could ask in Apple's forums.

Or just wait for us to get the details.

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New Here ,
Oct 12, 2010 Oct 12, 2010

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I've been following several threads in Apple's forum on Displays and the Mac Pro.  There seems to be a similar level of uncertainty and confusion there. Many people are installing new high-bit wide-gamut monitors, but most of the problem reports are about basic issues like failure to wake from sleep, computers that won't boot, etc.  Some of these problem are probably related to incorrectly manufactured DisplayPort cables, as described in this tech note from NEC.

My interest in 10-bit is partially motivated by my hobby (photography) but also by my projects at work.  I develop software for a group of vision scientists.  Some of them are using Mac-based systems for stimulus generation, and they would like to present 10-bit stimuli from OpenGL.  Currently, their only options are special purpose products that run on PCs.

I guess we will just have to wait and see how this shakes out.  In times like this, it helps to remember an adage from the Old West: "You can always spot the pioneers - they're the ones with the arrows in their backs."

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Oct 13, 2010 Oct 13, 2010

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Well, it looks like Apple isn't quite ready.

They create a 10 bit/channel framebuffer, but can't seem to enable the output.

We're talking to them about it - and waiting on them to enable the complete pipeline.

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New Here ,
Oct 14, 2010 Oct 14, 2010

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Thanks for the update Chris. We will keep our fingers crossed that Apple gets it together soon!

Pete

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New Here ,
Oct 14, 2010 Oct 14, 2010

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Hi Pete & Chris,

Thank you for working on this. I just got my 2 Eizo CG243w back with updated firmware. Mouse jump issue is resolved, now I sit and wait for 10-bit support.

Mac pro 5,1 mid-2010

ATI 5770

Mac OS 10.6.4

Adobe CS5

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New Here ,
Nov 17, 2010 Nov 17, 2010

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Just to add another test case.

mac pro 2008, 3,1

NEC PA271W

ATI 5870 (mac upgrade)

snow leopard 10.6.5

monoprice 5714 mdp to dp adapter \ NEC dp to dp cable

set cs5 photoshop to open gl \ advanced\ and other defualts

viewed the ramp.psd and had banding in both dp and dvi.

Tried reboot (new os load), tried 64bit and 32bit cs5 , tried os in 64 bit mode.

spoke with 3rd level tech support from Apple and said that mdp is 10 bit. spoke to A&D and confirmed. Now asking you folks is this an future update fix for cs5 or is this a hardware driver issue from apple\a&d

Thanks

Ian

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Nov 18, 2010 Nov 18, 2010

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This is a driver issue for Apple.

Apple allows 10 bit framebuffers in OpenGL, but do not support 10 bit output on any video cards yet.

If things work correctly, no changes should be needed in Photoshop, only in the drivers.

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New Here ,
Nov 18, 2010 Nov 18, 2010

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Thanks Chris.

So I just have to ask...did Adobe identify this with apple as a defect, and do you know if apple is aware of this ? Hate to see a good 10bit capability put to waste...

Also if they 10bit framebuffer outpout has never been enabled\not available how do you know your stuff integrated properly against the 10 bit functionality in snow leopard. (asking politely, just curious)..

You folks in SJ have always done a great job, as well as the Freemont group.

Message was edited by: ihbond

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Nov 19, 2010 Nov 19, 2010

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We have identified it with Apple as a "feature not implemented but highly desired by our customers".

We know that we can compute and read back a 10 bit framebuffer.  We don't know if it outputs correctly - but that would be a driver issue.

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New Here ,
Nov 19, 2010 Nov 19, 2010

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Thanks Chris.

Yea ,I opened up a trouble ticket impacting my business to Apple. IF others feel the same way, call Apple support and let them know how you feel about this as well.

Glad to hear you folks opened one as well.

Thanks for explaining Adobe's take on this to me. I hope it does get resolved soon.

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New Here ,
Dec 10, 2010 Dec 10, 2010

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Well got the official word from product specialist from Apple after i opened a trouble ticket (I would copy and paste the email here, but not sure of the copyright agreement ). Anyhow to sum it up. Apple does not support 10 bit output in their os and their is no word on when or if this will be supported.

Take Care Ian

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