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PS exports still are too contrasty/saturated after attempted fixes

Explorer ,
Apr 21, 2022 Apr 21, 2022

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My workflow has always been processing the photos in Adobe Camera Raw, then opening them as objects in Photoshopping for any Photoshoppery.  However, when I export them, they are way contrastier and more saturated than what I see in Photoshop.  

So for fixes, I've tried the following:
-  upping exporting as a PNG
-  exporting the highest image quality JPEG possible

-  exporting while embedding color space
-  checking the convert to sRGB box

Due to starting in ACR, the color space I was working in was Adobe RGB. I heard that a lot of platforms use sRGB color spaces as their standard.  So I tried the "Convert the Profile" option and set it to sRGB and then exported it again.  

Importing them back into PS both the Adobe RGB and sRGB-converted photos were accurate, also true in Windows Photo Viewer, but pretty much everywhere else made them constrastier and more saturated.  

What am I missing???

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Community Expert ,
Apr 21, 2022 Apr 21, 2022

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Hi @eugenei27144166. I'm not sure what you mean by "pretty much everywhere else," but when viewing images with some browsers, such as Edge, recently introduced settings can alter image appearance. These are sometimes turned on by default.

 

"With a new option enabled, Microsoft can render images on websites in an improved way. The browser will change the image brightness, contrast and improve tones to make it look impressive on your screen."

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Explorer ,
Apr 21, 2022 Apr 21, 2022

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So I've found they're different Windows' Photos app, Window's preview screen when clicking on the file, opening them in Chrome, opening them in DropBox, I think I even did Paint for fun and it was the same issue there. Checked the dropbox from my iPhone as well JiC. 

For clients, is there a way to make it more consistent, so they get accurate photos?  For instance, I send them via DropBox, which is inaccurate.  If they download them and look at them in Photo, that's inaccurate (especially as newest Windows dropped Windows Photo Viewer altogether).  I haven't tried Instagram yet, but if they want to post them to an Instagram, I'd imagine it'd be the same story?   

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Community Expert ,
Apr 22, 2022 Apr 22, 2022

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Generally, it's considered best practice to save as sRGB for "general" (sometimes non colour managed) viewing. 

On a "normal" gamut screen - even with out a colour managed application to use the document profile correctly the appearance should be ?OK?

BUT these days there are a growing number of 'wide gamut monitor screens' in the field [claimed "9x% of Adobe RGB gamut", or maybe "P3" (P3 = macs, mostly), with those screens colour management is vital, because "throwing" an sRGB image onto the wide gamut screen, without colour management, will make the image awfully over-saturated. 

 

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net :: adobe forum volunteer:: co-author: 'getting colour right'
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management

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Community Expert ,
Apr 21, 2022 Apr 21, 2022

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You're probably missing colour management. Not all programs do it

What application programs are you using to view your files?

and are you embedding the icc profile when saving

(BTW why export when you can simply "save as"?

 

neil b

colormanagement 

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Explorer ,
Apr 21, 2022 Apr 21, 2022

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I'm trying the programs/platforms my clients would see the photos from.  So I send via DropBox, which they show up inaccurate there, Windows Photo if they decide to download them and see them locally, the preview pane in File Explorer, Chrome, and they're all inaccurate.  I haven't tried Insta yet, but I imagine it'd be the same.  

Is embedding the icc the option you check that reads "Embed Color Profile"?

As far as exporting instead of saving as, I'll be straight with you, I don't know what the difference is.

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LEGEND ,
Apr 21, 2022 Apr 21, 2022

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Yes, you must embed a profile to define the color space. But if the 'other' application isn't color managed, it is kind of moot; non-color managed applications have no idea what the profile means, nor does it understand the conditions of your display through a display profile. So we need to know what that 'other' application is. 

Photoshop is of course color-managed. All other color-managed applications, outside of bugs or issues like corrupted display profiles, will match Photoshop (do always compare when zoomed in at 100%; 1:1). 

You cannot control how others view your images! They may not be using color-managed applications, calibrating and profiling their displays, or doing so very differently from you and others. 

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Community Expert ,
Apr 21, 2022 Apr 21, 2022

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quote

I'm trying the programs/platforms my clients would see the photos from.  So I send via DropBox, which they show up inaccurate there, Windows Photo if they decide to download them and see them locally, the preview pane in File Explorer, Chrome, and they're all inaccurate.  I haven't tried Insta yet, but I imagine it'd be the same.

 

It's the application, not what the application happens to be displaying at any moment. Instagram is irrelevant here, Dropbox is irrelevant here. What's relevant is which web browser you have them open in.

 

Bottom line: embed the profile, use a color managed application. Then it will display correctly, or at least as correct as your monitor profile (which is why people have calibrators).

 

quote

As far as exporting instead of saving as, I'll be straight with you, I don't know what the difference is.

 

Export is specifically intended for web/screen/mobile devices - smallish files that need to be as compact as possible. It strips everything non-essential from the file, compresses the data as efficiently as possible, and lets you preview the result. The overriding aim is a small file that loads quickly.

 

Save As retains all the data and is the standard/normal way to output a file from Photoshop

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Explorer ,
Apr 30, 2022 Apr 30, 2022

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The photos are shot for web/computer/lapton screens/mobile/etc. so I would want the finals to cater to that.  I've heard that the applications I'm using (Chrome, Safari, Windows Photo when reviewing locally), they all may not have Adobe RGB color management or Pro Photo, etc, but they are all sRGB color space friendly.  So I tried to convert to sRGB, and JIC, I also switched the color space on the RAW side to sRGB so it's sRGB 8-bit/channel from the very beginning.  They're not as bad, BUT when comparing 1:1 in Windows Photo and PS, there's still a noticeable drop in luma. 

My goal is to have PS show me what it will look like in an sRGB-managed application, and I can't seem to make that happen.

I thought I understood everything that was mentioned here on the thread, but this is still persisting.  Is there something that I'm missing or just misunderstanding?

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LEGEND ,
Apr 30, 2022 Apr 30, 2022

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The photos are shot for web/computer/lapton screens/mobile/etc. so I would want the finals to cater to that. 

 

In reality, you can only do this on your own system. You can't control how others see your images because you don't know if they are using color managed applications, and even if so, calibrating their displays (and how), etc. You can try hitting the middle of the barn by viewing sRGB images on your system under proper color management but after that, all bets are off.

 

This may help:

sRGB urban legend & myths Part 2

In this 17 minute video, I'll discuss some more sRGB misinformation and cover:

When to use sRGB and what to expect on the web and mobile devices

How sRGB doesn't insure a visual match without color management, how to check

The downsides of an all sRGB workflow

sRGB's color gamut vs. "professional" output devices

The future of sRGB and wide gamut display technology

Photo print labs that demand sRGB for output
High resolution: http://digitaldog.net/files/sRGBMythsPart2.mp4 Low resolution on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WyvVUL1gWVs

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Explorer ,
Jun 07, 2022 Jun 07, 2022

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I watched the videos, as well as most of the videos on the Pluralsight course to wrap my head around this.  So my work goes to people with PC's so I imagine that the majority of the photos will be seen on sRGB managed programs (such as Photo), or sRGB managed browsers, such as Chrome.  Of course, I can't control if they fiddle with their on-screen display or what have you, but my goal would be to have the photos show with the correct color management, so that if all of the photos look different, they'll at least be in line with other color-managed photos.  I hardly ever print, so sRGB is my priority.

If I were to start with ProPhoto in ACR and get the max color space, I have a few questions:
1)  Is there a way to soft proof in ACR so what I'm seeing (despite being in Pro Photo) is reflective of what I'd end up seeing in sRGB so I can process it with that end in mind?

2)  If I start with ProPhoto in ACR, make my adjustments, open as an object (so I still have access to make ACR changes), THEN convert it to sRGB, will it open as ProPhoto in ACR, I make some new adjustments, and then it automatically converts those changes into RGB color space?
3) I tried converting from ProPhoto to sRGB and in the info tab at the bottom left (next to the Zoom), it still says Pro Photo.  I tried converting again, and in source space, it says it's sRGB.  Then when I export, the colors are completely out of whack.  Is this just a PS bug?  

4), I tried changing Color Settings after to sRGB, and now it seems fine.  After some jostling about it finally changed in the bottom tab from ProPhoto to sRGB.  Is this the workflow?  And the needing to mess around before it'd show that it's sRGB, is that a bug?

Thanks for all the help, I really do appreciate it.


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LEGEND ,
Jun 07, 2022 Jun 07, 2022

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1. Yes, you can soft proof to sRGB or any profile you can select in the Workflow options. If the profile is a true output profile, you can select a rendering intent and you can simulate paper white and ink black too. 

2. Yes, a Smart Object simply embeds the raw into the Photoshop document and you have access to that in ACR just as if it were not a SO. So #1 above applies. 

3 & 4. I need to see a screen capture, not sure what you're referring to or where. 

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"

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Community Expert ,
Jun 07, 2022 Jun 07, 2022

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3) the way you describe it, it sounds like you assigned, not converted.

 

4) your working RGB doesn't matter. The only important setting in color settings is color management policies. This should always be set to Preserve Embedded Profiles. With that setting, the embedded profile will always override your working RGB. You convert with Edit > Convert to Profile.

 

 

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Explorer ,
Apr 21, 2022 Apr 21, 2022

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Also I looked at "Save As" and it just offers PSD, PSB, PDF, and TIFF as options.  I would just want an accurate JPEG.

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Community Expert ,
Apr 21, 2022 Apr 21, 2022

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You need to Save As a Copy or set the file handling preferences to use Legacy Save As in order to directly save a JPEG from a doc that was not suitable for directly saving to JPEG.

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