Purple printing as Blue

[Danielle5C64]

I need help, please. This is driving me bonkers. I have a color I have been using for years that all of a sudden is printing incorrectly. The color is in the Purple family:

PANTONE: 7447 C RGB: R 93; G 71; B 119 HEX/HTML: 5D4777 CMYK: C 77% M 85% Y 6% K 18%

This color is now printing a very bright, almost royal blue. I've replicated it on multiple printers (in and out of our office network), using several devices (Mac & PC), and even with old files I haven't edited recently. I have tried changing the shade of purple and it's still printing blue, the shade of the blue changes. So far, this has happened with PDF, jpeg, and png files. Photoshop and Indesign as well. The files on my screen are purple, but the prints are blue.

The only way I've gotten the color to work correctly is by printing directly from Photoshop with Photoshop Managing colors. However once saved, the color changes to blue when printed outside of the Photoshop environment. Not sure what's going on. This just started this week. I printed something in December with no issues. The attached picture shows the correct color on the right and the incorrect on the left. 

[Stephen_A_Marsh]

Is this a spot colour channel or is it made from RGB or CMYK values in the same colour mode document?

[Danielle5C64]

This is the swatch. I'm in CMYK mode. Let me know if you need to know more.

[Stephen_A_Marsh]

What CMYK ICC profile is assigned to the document, or what CMYK ICC profile is set in colour settings to be assumed for CMYK documents that are not colour managed with an explicit profile?

[Danielle5C64]

Is this what you are looking for?

[Stephen_A_Marsh]

Thanks, yes, the CMYK values when coupled with the U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) ICC profile do produce purple, the device independent Lab value are:

30L 22a -36b (relative)

30L 17a -27b (absolute)

This reflects the higher magenta over cyan value, however, we need to know the CMYK ICC being used.

It will depend on the software being used for printing, most consumer/office orientated software has no idea what CMYK mode is or what an ICC profile is, let alone a CMYK ICC profile – so any CMYK data may be converted to RGB before printing and without the correct understanding of what the input colour is, the output is wrong.

[Danielle5C64]

Okay, so if I'm understanding this correctly, the office printers I used to print this is giving these issues because it can't read the CMYK? Would converting over to RGB fix this issue (I have the color values, so I can match it up).

And when sending to a commercial printer, they should be able to read the CMYK, so no conversion is needed to get the colors to print correctly? 

[Stephen_A_Marsh]

Okay, so if I'm understanding this correctly, the office printers I used to print this is giving these issues because it can't read the CMYK? Would converting over to RGB fix this issue (I have the color values, so I can match it up).

And when sending to a commercial printer, they should be able to read the CMYK, so no conversion is needed to get the colors to print correctly? 

By @Danielle5C64

It is about the software driving the printer. The software may have ICC colour management, as Photoshop does. 

If using say an Epson inkjet printer driver, it only understands RGB (sRGB or Adobe RGB) and is using Epson paper and ink formulas. Printing from colour managed software such as Photoshop or Acrobat, you may get the correct colour from CMYK data to an RGB input printer.

Same for many laser printers, not only inkjet.

There is no guarantee that a commercial printer will print the "correct colour" from CMYK data, however, there is more chance that they will. :]

[Danielle5C64]

Okay. So my data does look correct for CMYK? I've already planned to get something test printed from a sign company to see if the issue happens. I'll be giving them the color data as well when I send in the file so they know what to expect to output.

It's been frustrating because it was printing correctly until this week. Makes me wonder if some patch went out that changed how a printer read the profiles. At my office, I believe we use Xerox printers. I know one other printer was tried, but I'm unsure of the brand/type, but I assume it was an office printer. 

[NB, colourmanagement]

Danielle: "And when sending to a commercial printer, they should be able to read the CMYK, so no conversion is needed to get the colors to print correctly? "

if sending to a commercial printer it is VITAL to know what CMYK "flavour" they want. Could be it's the Photoshop default of SWOP coated, but maybe not. may run their [ptesses to higher standards nowadays.

The CMYK profile is a little like a recipe for colour, the ingredient mix for each colour is set in the ICC profile, get it wrong and the printed colours will not appear correctly. 

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net - adobe forum volunteer - co-author: 'getting colour right'
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management

[Danielle5C64]

I *think* I may have found the issue. When going to print, I switch from ColorSync to the correct profile (U.S. Web Coated (SWOP)) it prints just fine. When I use Color Sync it's wrong. I checked Color Sync and it looks like several profiles from Adobe are showing errors. I'm not sure if fixing these errors would fix the problem, or if I should just start setting my color settings each time I print to U.S. Web Coated (SWOP). I'm on a Mac, so not sure if how it will work on PC, but I will be checking into that soon.

Searching for profiles…

Checking 14 profiles…

/Library/Application Support/Adobe/Color/Profiles/BlackWhite.icc

   Header message digest (MD5) is not correct. 

/Library/Application Support/Adobe/Color/Profiles/VideoPAL.icc

   Header message digest (MD5) is not correct. 

/Library/Application Support/Adobe/Color/Profiles/VideoHD.icc

   Header message digest (MD5) is not correct. 

/Library/Application Support/Adobe/Color/Profiles/VideoNTSC.icc

   Header message digest (MD5) is not correct. 

/Library/Application Support/Adobe/Color/Profiles/Recommended/image-P3.icc

   Header message digest (MD5) is not correct. 

/Library/Application Support/Adobe/Color/Profiles/JapanColor2011Coated.icc

   Tag ‘desc’: Description tag has a bad Unicode string. 

Verify done. Found 6 bad profiles.

[NB, colourmanagement]

Often the report on profile issues can be spurious, you'll see that "fix" doesn’t always fix the issues, I've stopped worrying about those reported issues.

If you are printing to an inkjet and selecting Photoshop Manages Color "U.S. Web Coated (SWOP)" then that really should not work - because you inkjet machine has its own characteristics which are defined in the ICC profile containing the printer and media name. By all means use Photoshop Manages Color, that's my own favoured way, but select the right ICC profile for the output device.

IF the printer manufacturer matched it to U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) [sometimes they do that with office printers] then it would be the right profile to select, but I'd want to be told that by the printer's manufacturer. 

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net - adobe forum volunteer - co-author: 'getting colour right'
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management

[Nancy OShea]

Well the first thing I always check are the printer heads and ink cartridges. 

Clogged heads can cause colors failures.

Next is to ensure the image color profile is the same (sRGB works best for me on screen, CMYK is what I use for professional print process).  I use the ICC profile recommended my print professional to match his inks & paper stock.

And of course the colors on your display must be calibrated to ensure that what you see on screen is not some random aberration.

Hope that helps.

[TheDigitalDog]

You should always test output using good color reference images designed for that task. The color reference images RGB values are such that they are set for output and are editing and display agnostic. Test the output this way and examine for the same color issues so we know it's not your image-specific issues causing the problems:
http://www.digitaldog.net/files/2014PrinterTestFileFlat.tif.zip
This and other such documents can also be downloaded at http://www.digitaldog.net/

[Danielle5C64]

Still waiting to hear back from a commercial printer if they have any luck, but I'm still at a loss for our office printers.

It's not a print head issue. It's happening on multiple printers at multiple work sites. So different printers, the same exact issue. My in-house printer is a Xerox AltaLink C8155. I've been trying to find the ICC profile for that printer, but no luck. Checking ColorSync on my Mac just says CMYK, unknown or remote profile. Digging through the printer's documentation also revealed nothing.

Tried calibrating my monitor. Tried calibrating the printer. Test prints on the printer are normal. Happening on both PC/Mac. I'm at a loss for what to even try anymore. A lot of my work is printed by everyday users on office printers, so telling users to use a certain ICC profile when printing isn't really an option.

What's bizarre is it seems to be mostly limited to 'previews' of the files. For example, if I save it as a jpeg/png, the issue happens. If I print based on a preview on the web, the issue happens. If I print directly from PDF on my computer, or any Adobe program, except Photoshop, the color prints as normal. It seems to be limited to mostly image-based formats.

[TheDigitalDog]

 I've been trying to find the ICC profile for that printer, but no luck. Checking ColorSync on my Mac just says CMYK, unknown or remote profile. Digging through the printer's documentation also revealed nothing.

By @Danielle5C64

Why, oh why are you sending CMYK to your office printer? 

[Danielle5C64]

It does the exact same thing with RGB.

[Danielle5C64]

When I look at my ColorSync as well, there are no listed profiles for RGB. Just Grey and CMYK. Both say, unknown or remote profile.

[NB, colourmanagement]

@Danielle5C64 how are you doing this: "When I look at my ColorSync"

whether looking listings in the colorsync application or in the colorsync profiles folder should contain many profiles not just a few?

have a look here for how to find that

what happens when (with the document open) you go to Photoshop's "print" dialogue,

there you'll see "Photoshop Manages Color" then below a list of available profiles.

Do you see more listed there? 

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net - adobe forum volunteer - co-author: 'getting colour right'
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management

[TheDigitalDog]

It does the exact same thing with RGB.

By @Danielle5C64

What RGB color space, what document? 

[Danielle5C64]

Latest update. Proofs from the printer came back. All are blue. The printer gave me some more information on each sign that I've attached. I did send them the color information. These are yard signs and all four options printed in different shades of blue.

[Phillip Noury]

Im having a similar issue. youth sports team  photographer ...although till now I've been blaming the new to  printer I purchased ...but now after looking for discussion ( and finding yours ) I am wondering if its something I'm missing.

Did you find a solution ?

[Stephen_A_Marsh]

@Phillip Noury 

Is the issue blue turning purple? Or purple turning blue?

Your situation may or may not be similar.

1) What colour mode and ICC profile describe the input image?

2) wha colour values make the blue?

3) can you provide screenshots of your print settings? What ICC profile or driver settings describe the output of the printer?

[NB, colourmanagement]

@Phillip Noury the issue could be that you are, when editing,  pushing colour saturation way beyond the colour range of the printer. The colour management transform from your working colour space (ICC) to the printer colour space (ICC) may cause such a colour change if the colours are way out of gamut. Gamut mapping can only do so much, unfortunately.

Have you tried Photoshop's View/Gamut Warning, with the actual output device (printer) profile selected as target? You may have to selectively edit the problem colour to get a good conversion.

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net - adobe forum volunteer - co-author: 'getting colour right'
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management
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