RGB vs sRGB

[jdsaintclair]

After doing some research online I'm not entirely sure which is best for shooting/printing fine art photography with the intention to print large scale images. Anyone who has a clear point of view on this I appreciate your perspective.

julie

[jdsaintclair]

So how do I navigate directly to camera raw - this is a program within

bridge or photoshop - I see it in my library but I'm not able to open as a

stand alone. I'm not familiar with where to go to affect/change it on its

own. Only that it works within my bridge/photoshop program.

On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 2:41 PM Per Berntsen <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

[Per Berntsen]

jdsaintclair  wrote

So how do I navigate directly to camera raw

You double-click the raw file in the Finder (I suspect you are on a Mac), or open it from Bridge.

I rarely use Bridge, but you either double-click, or right click, and choose Open in Camera Raw.

Camera Raw is a plugin for Bridge and Photoshop, and you can't open it without opening a file.

[D Fosse]

jdsaintclair  wrote

So how do I navigate directly to camera raw

If you shoot raw files, they will always open directly into the Camera Raw plugin (ACR). Photoshop can't open raw files, they have to be processed in ACR first.

[Mike_Gondek]

What are you trying to achieve with proof setup on an RGB file??? Most people use that after converting RGB to CMYK to proof a file going to print.

For the few who generate graphics for digital displays they would have the RGB profile, though most do not do that from my experience in large format digital displays.

[jdsaintclair]

I was watching a photoshop cc video and they said to set it this way - sRGB

so I was just curious as to how this affecting what I see on screen. I

didn't want to change anything because my prints are coming out really

well. So, I just started to investigate and, well, as you can see from all

the responses it's a bit of a bunny hole.

[Derek Cross]

Apropos the mention by the OP of printing large-scale images, the May issue of InDesign Magazine has a special feature on creating huge layouts for banners, billboards, and other mega-displays. Although primarily aimed at InDesign users, it includes invaluable information about resolution etc, that would be useful to Photoshop users creating large format artwork: https://indesignsecrets.com/issues/issue-121-big-design

[Nancy OShea]

You would never put large scale print quality images on the web.  The page would take forever to load.

sRGB is all I ever use for web optimized images.

When I'm sending things to an offsite print shop, I use the color space they recommend.  In most cases, a CMYK preset.  For best results, talk to your print professional.

[Derek Cross]

Nancy, I don't think the OP has mentioned putting her photographs on the web in her question.

[davescm]

Hi mentioned it in my reply as many who sell large fine art prints do so via a website.

The main point is, with photographs, start with a wide RGB space but one which you can see and control. Hence my use of Adobe RGB for master files.

When printing, many inkjet printers can print a wider gamut than 4 colour CMYK through the use of additional inks. If printing via a commercial firm, Nancy's advice to talk to the printer is always sound, so that you can convert to the profile they require.

Dave

[Test Screen Name]

Which menu seems to give you a choice between RGB and sRGB? Perhaps we can discover why the software is misleading or confusing.

[D Fosse]

She's probably referring to Image > Mode, with RGB / CMYK modes.

Image Mode is a holdover from back when the working space was the only color space in operation. That was before embedded icc profiles - at the time it was introduced referred to as "multiple working spaces".

Today, with modern color management, the embedded profile overrides the working space - which in turn is reduced to a fallback default for missing profiles and new documents. The proper way to do this now, is to use Edit > Convert to Profile (or Assign Profile if there isn't one already).

In other words - Image Mode isn't needed anymore and shouldn't be used. It doesn't have the necessary precision for a modern workflow.

[jdsaintclair]

Convert to profile brings up the same window as view - I have it set for

Adobe RGB (1998)

[jdsaintclair]

To be clear, the only reason this has come up is because I was watching a

tutorial that came with the photoshop cc upgrade. The instructor said to

view and set it to sRGB. I did some research and there seemed to be a whole

discussion between the two and which offered the bigger array of colors.

So, I wanted to sort that out. I just discovered from this email

conversation that I should go to edit/convert to profile and it was the

same window that comes up under view proof-set up and it contained the info

I put in - Adobe RGB (1998)

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 1:38 AM Test Screen Name <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

[D Fosse]

You can use either, depending on what the destination is.

• sRGB is often used because it is pretty close to the native color space of most monitors. That means it will look roughly right even without color management, and for that reason it is a safe choice for beginners. You pretty much can't go wrong.
• Adobe RGB is a larger color space, meaning it can contain more saturated colors. But it can only be used in a color managed environment (using software that supports color management) to display correctly.
• Adobe RGB is larger than your monitor, so you can not see the difference between them directly. On screen, everything is clipped to sRGB. But there may be printable colors that are outside sRGB. That's one of the reasons it's used.

Proof is completely irrelevant here, it has a very different purpose. Turn it off.

(Edited twice for clarity)

[jdsaintclair]

I guess what you are saying is since my monitor can't see all the colors

available in Adobe RGB then I should disregard that setting as a profile

for my monitor? My work is very color intense (juliestclair.com) and since

I've updated my camera and now photoshop I just want to be sure I'm

progressing along with that in that I'm using all the tools available to me

in my work. Does that make sense?

[Derek Cross]

If it's important to you, and you have the budget, you could consider getting a monitor that matches, more or less, Adobe RGB.

[G_Hoffmann]

Julie St.Clair seems to be very familiar with lifestyle photography

and photoshop-esthetics:

www.juliestclair.com

Her colors are often artificial, therefore correct color management isn't

much important. On the other hand, the gray images are really gray,

but I have to criticize the spelling of "Cappuccino"...

Best regards --Gernot Hoffmann

[jdsaintclair]

Oh yikes. Thanks. My favorite - too.

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 10:33 AM G.Hoffmann <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

[D Fosse]

julie, the reason this thread gets confusing is because you're starting out with a lot of faulty and false premises. So this is going back and forth to clear up misinterpreted information.

A statement like "since my monitor can't see all the colors available in Adobe RGB then I should disregard that setting as a profile for my monitor" is actually meaningless on at least two levels simultaneously.There is no way to answer that because the basic premises for the question are wrong. First, the choice of color space is not determined by what you can see on your monitor. Second, you don't use the document profile anywhere near your monitor. Those two are completely separate and not to be mixed up.

[jdsaintclair]

Yikes - OK sorry I used RGB outside the Adobe RGB space - and now this

bunny hole has now come to an end. Thanks for all your patience and input.

[Test Screen Name]

Still, Image Mode doesn’t offer a choice of RGB or sRGB...

[D Fosse]

It could also be that she means sRGB vs. (Adobe) RGB - ?

In any case, it's all well and thoroughly explained above.

[Test Screen Name]

I think you've been looking at a lot of information on the internet. Unfortunately a lot of it is just wrong. This is leaving you with a whole bunch of different ideas which don't fit together. (Of course, we can be wrong too, but I am seeing a lot of agreement).

For example: there is probably no situation in which you set a profile for your monitor to Adobe RGB. Your monitor profile depends on the hardware, and setting it to anything else is fundamentally wrong. But this seems nothing to do with the original question as we understood it. It might help us get the info into shape if, when you ask about doing a particular thing, you let us know what instructions you are trying to follow.

I don't think you ever told us where you had the choice between "RGB" and "sRGB", and we've told you that this is not so much a difficult question, as a question that makes no sense. But you keep returning to the question, so it's the same thing: please tell us where you see this choice, or what tells you to make it.

[jdsaintclair]

Yeah - I'm frustrating everyone, I can see that. I was watching a photoshop

cc tutorial and the guy said go to view and "I set mine at sRGB" - which

now I can see that was just for output to a jpeg. Anyway - that got me

thinking do I need to set my monitor in a particular way. It's already

calabarated to my printer and I'm getting good results but is this

something I need to pay attention to. Never came up before. Does it make a

difference? I did research on the internet and it just confused me a bit -

saying RGB allows a bigger color spectrum than sRGB. So, I asked myself why

wouldn't I want access to that? But I see know wht you are trying to

communicate. But you are not all saying the same thing tho - here's Daves

answer which says to set it at RGB - my guess is he has a monitor that

shows the greater color spectrum and his own printing process.

Hi

Start at the beginning and shoot Raw files from your camera. These have no

colour space but use 14 bits for each raw channel (12 bits on older

cameras). Don't worry about setting the camera to sRGB or Adobe RGB that is

only for output to 8bit/channel jpegs which you definitely do not want to

do for any work that will be processed later to large prints.

In Adobe Camera Raw or Lightroom you develop your RAW files into a RGB

images and you want the output to be 16 bits/channel. At this point you

also allocate a colour space.

The three most common RGB colour spaces are sRGB (the narrowest space that

covers the least colours), Adobe RGB (wider i.e more colours covered) and

ProPhoto (very wide). You would think, and you do see recommendations, that

you would ouput as Pro-Photo, however it contains lots of colours that you

will never see on a monitor (even a wide gamut monitor) and personally I

use Adobe RGB which easily covers the colours on my monitor and printer.

That way I can predict what is going to print.

If you have to send an image to the web, export a copy and convert it to

sRGB at that Export stage.

If you are serious about colour then you need to ensure that your monitor

is displaying colours correctly. That means using a hardware device to

calibrate and profile the monitor. Photoshop will use the monitor profile

and convert the document colours as it displays them so they look correct

on your monitor.

Dave

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:58 AM Test Screen Name <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

[D Fosse]

Julie, why are you still talking about "RGB" versus sRGB? We've all been saying, repeatedly, that those two belong to different classes. They are the wrong concepts.