sRGB or Adobe RGB

[WaMo]

Hi,
I need some help understanding color profiles.
I created an image in Midjourney which is probably in sRGB color space.
In Photoshop I modified the artwork and changed it to Adobe RGB color space. Does this work or can't I change an sRGb into Adobe RGB?

The image looks much more saturated but if I would print it would the sRGB still be the more accurate representation or will it print like the more saturated Adobe RGB.

I am really confused!!!

[D Fosse]

If you need a different color profile, you go to Edit > Convert to Profile. That remaps the numbers into the new color space, preserving visual appearance.

Don't use Edit > Assign Profile! That leaves the numbers, but changes the meaning of those numbers. Hence, the visual appearance will change.

Assign Profile should only be used when an image doesn't have a profile at all (untagged). An image should always, no exception, have an embedded profile. If it doesn't, the numbers are undefined.

You can also use Assign Profile if you know the image has the wrong profile embedded. Like here.

[WaMo]

Thank you for addressing my question. The files are untagged. I assigned them to Adobe RGB. So that was wrong.
How do I know for sure that the Midjourney files are in sRGB if they are untagged? Is there any way to find out for sure? I couldn't find any info on that.

And if assign them back to sRGB everything should be correct again. I didn't mess anything up. I that right to assume?

[D Fosse]

Thank you for addressing my question. The files are untagged. I assigned them to Adobe RGB. So that was wrong.
How do I know for sure that the Midjourney files are in sRGB if they are untagged?

By @WaMo

The thing is - if Midjourney doesn't support color management at all, then it's neither.

If you are working without color management, then you are working in monitor color space.

So then the question becomes what monitor you're using. If it's a standard gamut monitor, then sRGB is closest. If it's a wide gamut monitor, Adobe RGB is closest. If it's a P3 monitor, Image P3 is closest.

None of them will be identical. If you want identical, treat it like a screenshot: assign your monitor profile first, then convert to the standard color space you want afterwards.

Color management and icc profiles takes the monitor out of the equation and standardizes the RGB numbers. Without color management, the monitor, whatever it happens to be in each situation, determines the rules.

[NB, colourmanagement]

@WaMo  D. Fosse is right to suggest as best practice that you "treat it like a screenshot: assign your monitor profile first, then convert to the standard color space you want afterwards."

Why?

If your image creation app doesn’t use colour management then it's simply sending uncorrected data to the screen. So the characteristics of the screen affect your image's appearance. 

This means the best way to view your saved image accurately when it's displayed by a colour managed program like Photoshop is to ASSIGN the display profile. 

THEN it's time to CONVERT to AdobeRGB if that’s what you want. Doing so doesn’t add colour so there's little pointless you intend to increase saturation. (of course, if you've been asked for an Adobe RGB file then you should convert. Otherwise, there's no reason not to leave it as sRGB 

Assign means "add a label" (which should be embedded upon saving) so that the colourmanagement process knows how to interpret image data. Of course, you have to assign the right profile - the one that produces correct image appearance.

IF you need the image in a different colour space then now's the time to convert.

Assigning a larger colour space to an image than the one in which it was made amplifies the colour as you have seen.

Photoshop reads the embedded icc profile (or in the case of no embedded profile it assumes the default colour space set in Photoshop's color settings).

Then Photoshop's colour engine converts the pixel data using the images embedded ICC profile and the ICC profile of the output device, be that output device a screen (using the display ICC profile) or a printer (using an ICC profile for paper / ink/ printer), SO - Photoshop uses colour management at all times. 

Try it with my test image - please go here and download the Adobe RGB testimage: https://www.colourmanagement.net/index.php/downloads_listing/

It's an Adobe RGB image, if you assign a massive colour space like Pro Photo you'll see the saturation increase a lot, if you assign sRGB then you'll see the saturation gets muted. So, as you can see from this, which ICC profile you choose to assign is very important. Once it's assigned we call that an 'embedded profile' and it provides information to colour managed applications about the visual meaning of the pixel values .

some general assign -v-convert notes:

Assign profile - means

Replace an image file's ICC profile label (the profile "tag") or add a profile tag to an untagged file -

Tagged files: the Assigning of a profile is required very rarely for tagged files and when misused almost always alters appearance negatively, due to a change in interpretation of the image data by the colour management process.

Untagged files: Assigning a suitable ICC profile is necessary, even vital so that a colour managed program can correctly interpret pixel data.

After assigning - the image pixel data is unchanged, but the assigned profile is now used by the colour management process, so appearance may change. 

Convert to profile - means

translate the file's colour information to a new colourspace retaining image appearance*

(*within the limits of the destination gamut). 

The image pixel data is changed, to retain the image appearance whilst shifting it to a different colour space.

I hope this helps

more about profiles here
neil barstow, colourmanagement net - adobe forum volunteer - co-author: 'getting colour right'
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management

[Conrad_C]

It’s hard to say what a more “accurate” representation would be, since a Midjourney image is completely synthesized, right? It might be safe to assume Midjourney images are sRGB, just because that’s the most common default. In a case like there where a file has no embedded color profile and there is no real-world reference, then the only thing you have to go on is, which color space does it look best in when you use Assign Profile?

More saturation does not necessarily mean better. More saturation can be worse if it’s beyond what it would be in the real world, because then it’s inaccurate.

In Photoshop I modified the artwork and changed it to Adobe RGB color space. Does this work or can't I change an sRGb into Adobe RGB?

By @WaMo

All of this depends on how and why. For example, Photoshop lets you change color spaces using Assign Profile or Convert to Profile. Did you “change it to Adobe RGB color space” using Assign Profile, Convert to Profile, or another method?

Assign Profile is the right thing to do when the image is untagged, or when you think the original is currently being viewed in the wrong color space. Convert to Profile is the right thing to do when you need to switch an image’s color space, and want the current color appearance to be preserved as consistently as possible.

The image looks much more saturated but if I would print it would the sRGB still be the more accurate representation or will it print like the more saturated Adobe RGB.

By @WaMo

If you set up the print job correctly, the colors will print to the best of the ability of a specific combination of printer, ink, and paper. But for many reasons, printers cannot reproduce the same color range as sRGB or the larger Adobe RGB. So chances are it will not look the same when printed, although it might look fine. The more saturated it is, the higher the chance a print cannot match those colors.

On a cheap printer with plain paper, the colors will probably be much less saturated than on the screen.

As you upgrade the printer, its ink or toner, and the type of paper you use in it, the possible range of colors and tones it can reproduce goes up.

The most colors might be available in a professional color printer using a very high grade of paper, and where the printing color profile and other options are set properly.

None of those will be able to reproduce all of Adobe RGB, but they might reproduce much of sRGB.

[Test Screen Name]

The thing is, they aren't "in" any colour space. The people who create AIs probably don't even know what a colour space is. So the colour colour be anything, and when you Assign Adobe RGB, then you've given it an actual colour. You don't like it, so right or wrong that's probably not what you want to do.

A lot of creative people exist in the "design for web" world. It's the only world they know. They live in a world where (silently and without them knowing it) sRGB generally gets assumed for any untagged image. So, I think it's reasonable to say "let's assume this is sRGB".   But you are working in Photoshop. According to your preferences you may well ALREADY be assuming it's sRGB. If that's the case, just opening will assign sRGB, and just saving with a profile will make it tagged sRGB.

[ZBalling]

Of course we know what a color space is. All the images people train on are sRGB though.

[TheDigitalDog]

If you are conffused, this may help.

See: http://digitaldog.net/files/PhotoshopColorSettings.mp4
Photoshop CC Color Settings and Assign/Convert to Profile video

[NB, colourmanagement]

As others have written a non colour managed A.I. generated image is very likely targeted for the web / general display screens - so assigning sRGB in Photoshop will likely be the best approach. Assigning a larger colourspace like Adobe RGB will increase saturation. 

Try it with my test image - please go here and download the Adobe RGB testimage: https://www.colourmanagement.net/index.php/downloads_listing/

It's an Adobe RGB image, IF you assign a massive colour space like Pro Photo you'll see the saturation increase a lot, if you assign sRGB then you'll see the saturation gets muted. 

Starting with an sRGB image assigning a larger colourspace increases saturation. That may take the image beyond the printer's capability. Ink on paper can only go so far in reproducing saturation.

I hope this helps
neil barstow, colourmanagement net - adobe forum volunteer - co-author: 'getting colour right'
google me "neil barstow colourmanagement" for lots of free articles on colour management