Organizer import by capture date as opposed to file creation date

Report · Jan 08, 2021

Hello,

The import function sorts the elements by file creation date as opposed element capture date. In case the elements have been copied from a disk to another, they all have the same file creation date. So when importing, the result is that all elements have the same date in the catalog.

I want to import and sort by element capture date (date and time when the picture was actually taken). This information is embedded in the picture. Windows Photo can sort by picture capture date.

Can Organizer 2021 do that ?

For the moment I have a catalog with all picture dates set to january 7, 2021. I can't use it.

I have not found an aswer in the posts on the same subject. Many thanks for your help.

Report · Jan 09, 2021

The organizer only knows and uses capture dates. So the question is what is the source of the dates in your files?

There has been reports of the downloader reading files where the capture dates (date_taken) has already been changed in the files by the creation dates.

What's your import workflow, from which cameras/phones and to which computer (Mac or Win)?

If you download files to your computer via the OS or another downloader, do the capture dates appear as correct? Then if you import from 'files and folders', does the organizer show the right dates?

Report · Jan 11, 2021

Hello,

Many thanks for your reply.

I'll give you a few examples of the issues I encounter:

All pictures are stored in a folder on hard disk and imported as such:

Example 1:

Date created : January 1st 2021
Date modified: January 8th 2021 (import date)
In Organizer 2021: date Januarys 1st 2021
However, the picture is not displayed at all in the right place; its is far below in the pile.

Example 2:

Dated created: December 31st 2020
Date modified: January 8th 2021 (import date)
In Organizer 2021: date December 31st 2020
However the picture is not displayed in the right place.

Example 3:

Dated created: December 31st 2020
Date modified: January 8th 2021 (import date)
In Organizer 2021: date January 7th 2021
And the picture is not displayed in the right place.

Example 4:

Dated created: December 25th 2020
Date modified: January 8th 2021 (import date)
In Organizer 2021: December 25th 2020
And the picture is not displayed in the right place: as the first picture in the catalog !

So to me I don't see any logical pattern, I don't understand how Organize 2021 handles dates and displays in the catalog.

I would be so grateful if you could help me as my catalog is not usable as it is.

Best regards,

Report · Jan 11, 2021

I'm doing another test at the moment:

In the catalog I have the following picture :

Date 26/10/2020

I do a search by metadata on the capture date 26/10/2020. Void (no result).

Many thanks for your help.

Report · Jan 11, 2021

You don't answer my questions:

What's your import workflow, from which cameras/phones and to which computer (Mac or Win)?

The examples you are quoting seem to indicate that you are importing files on your computer which have the standard OS date fields; date_created and date_taken but not the date_taken (called differently depending on the platform, Mac or Win). Is there a valid date_taken in the files when you import them in your catalog? Are you importing from camera/card reader or from files already on your computer? How ?

Report · Jan 12, 2021

Hello,

1. The workflow is as follows :

1. Iphone and Android phone=> (2) Google photo (cloud) => (3) transfer to D:\ drive on a pc running Win10 (download from the cloud) => (4) Import with Organizer 2021

Important: Organizer 2021 gets lost with the different dates but windows photo does not and identifies properly the picture_taken date (so step 4 works with Windows photo but not with Organizer 2021).

In step 3, the dates shown by win10 are correct, for example :

Créé le: 25/12/2020
Modifié : 7/01/2021 (Step 3 date)

1. Is there a valid date_taken in the files when you import them in your catalog?
Yes there is, the proof being that windows photo finds them; in win10 and in French, it is called "créé le", which is the picture_taken date.

1. Are you importing from camera/card reader or from files already on your computer? How ?

See above.

I hope it clarifies.

Thanks for your help.

Report · Jan 12, 2021

Here is my own workflow to import files from the Android phones (Samsung S7 and S8) of our family (no iPhones) into my Win 10 computer.

- The cameras are synced to Google Photos

- Selection of images in Google Photos

- Last icon on the top right bar (3 dots) "Plus d'options"

- "télécharger Maj + D"

- Result: a zip file with the selected photos in my 'Téléchargements' (downloads) folder.

- Unzip in a selected (maybe temporary) folder

- Import from 'Files and Folders' in my catalog from that folder.

In all steps above including in the organizer, the date_taken is kept and respected.

What is different on your side?

Report · Jan 12, 2021

Hello,

My workflow is exactly - exactly!- the same, no difference.

What can I do to further analyze ?

Many thanks,

Report · Jan 13, 2021

In your previous posts, you insist on the way the organizer displays the thumbnails.

Let's agree on what you are seeing:

The files are not displayed in the expected order (capture date = date_taken) in the browsing space.

You don't say if the dates displayed under the thumbnails in detailed view (Ctrl D) are as expected and same for the date displayed in the properties panel on the right.

Now, Also check two important factors:

- the selected sort order on the button on the top left of the browsing space. It should be by dates.

- Your preferences for browsing dates: menu Edit >> Preferences>> general of the organizer. You can choose either all ascending or descending, If 'newest first' you can choose to display 'show oldest first in the same day' (my choice).

Report · Jan 13, 2021

Hello, please see my answers in capital letters in your text:

In your previous posts, you insist on the way the organizer displays the thumbnails.

Let's agree on what you are seeing:

The files are not displayed in the expected order (capture date = date_taken) in the browsing space. YES, CORRECT

You don't say if the dates displayed under the thumbnails in detailed view (Ctrl D) are as expected and same for the date displayed in the properties panel on the right. SOME HAVE THE IMPORT DATE AND OTHERS HAVE THE DATE_TAKEN. NO OBVIOUS REASON WHY THESE TWO CASES.

Now, Also check two important factors:

- the selected sort order on the button on the top left of the browsing space. It should be by dates. YES "Plus recent"
- Your preferences for browsing dates: menu Edit >> Preferences>> general of the organizer. You can choose either all ascending or descending, If 'newest first' you can choose to display 'show oldest first in the same day' (my choice). YES

Report · Jan 13, 2021

MORE PRECISE ANSWER

You don't say if the dates displayed under the thumbnails in detailed view (Ctrl D) are as expected and same for the date displayed in the properties panel on the right.
SOME HAVE THE "CREE LE" DATE (DATE_TAKEN) AND OTHERS HAVE THE "MODIFIE LE" DATE. NO OBVIOUS REASON WHY THESE TWO CASES. BOTH IN DETAILED VIEW AND PROPERTIES PANEL.

Report · Jan 13, 2021

Is it possible that Organizer2021 reads the date IN THE FILE NAME (for example IMG_20200607_222550.jpg) as opposed to FILE CREATION DATE (date_taken) ?

What I noticed in my catalog is that the pictures that do not have a name including the date (for example 29c23d05-d1e4-4efd-afd4-28e6344b503b.jpg) have all the date set to "file modified date".

The reason for such names is the download from Google photo to my hard drive : for some reasons, it changes the name of SOME pictures.

Report · Jan 13, 2021

Is it possible that Organizer2021 reads the date IN THE FILE NAME (for example IMG_20200607_222550.jpg) as opposed to FILE CREATION DATE (date_taken) ?

No.

The organizer uses only the 'date_taken' from the downloaded files. Only that kind of date is taken into account in the catalog structure and its indexes. What you see in the properties panel as other kinds of dates in the 'Files properties' are informations read directly from the file itself, not the catalog.

So, the answer to your question is about what the downloader reads at which stage of the import.

If the correct date_taken field in the exif data at the last stage is missing, the organizer will assume another existing date type. For instance, scanned pictures don't have date_taken. It's possible that you can verify the last version read by the downloader at the last step. It has been reported that with phones (from Apple especially) the correct field has already been replaced by another date type. I can't exclude such a replacement in the case of Google even if I have not yet seen that happen. By the way, I also use Dropbox for a similar downloading workflow and I have never found such replacements.

Such an issue is much less likely to happen with direct reading of the data on the photo card in the case of normal cameras, not phones.

So, to check if the date recorded in the catalog and in the detailed view is the same, the shortest way is to compare the file name based on date with the detailed view and then with the different data types in the properties panel CAMERA DATA (Exif), not in the FILE PROPERTIES section.

I'll try to search for similar cases in my own catalogs.

Report · Jan 14, 2021

Here is a display setup you can use to control if the 'date_taken' is really taken into account in the organizer.

1 - In the folders tree panel, I have chosen for the downloader to create a subfolder based on the date (YYY MM DD)

2 - The selected picture is selected in the media room (blue frame around the thumbnail)

3 - The S8 Android Phone has created a file name based on the date taken.

4 - In the properties panel, the first section (File Properties) shows the two types of dates used by the operating systems for tasks like backup management)

5 - The first 'Date time original' is the exif field used for the dates by the organizer.

I have not displayed the IPTC panel, it would also show the same 'Date time original'.

Report · Jan 14, 2021

Many thanks for your valuable inputs and your time, I have gone carefully through each step.

Here is the summary result.

For the pictures that are not positioned properly in the catalog, the exif field "date" does not exist. For some of them, the whole exif panel does not even exist. I have checked in Google photo, the date is correct (info panel). (I have checked for 15 pictures). It seems the "date" information is lost in the flow.

In the meantime, Windows10 Photo sorts the pictures properly, so it must be possible....

Report · Jan 15, 2021

I have another finding to share :

For the same series of photos (10 pictures taken in the same minute), some happen to have the right exif information in the catalog and some don't have any exif panel at all. In the second case, the catalog uses the windows "modifié le" date as the picture taken date.

Is there any way to check the exif information of a picture without using the Adobe PSE ?

Report · Jan 16, 2021

I check original exif information of a picture using windows - right click - details. Then I compare it to the exif panel in the organizer. It can happen that some exif information is lost during the import. In that case Organizer creates a date for the picture, which can be the "fichier créé le" or "fichier modifié le".

For all the tests I have made, there is an exif date in the original file ("prise de vue" or "média créé" or "date de création"). Why does the Organizer not always use one of those 3 dates to create the date for the picture ? It seems that the Organizer focuses on the "prise de vue" date and if it is not present does not use the other dates present in the original exif information. Which leads to the problem.

Can we do something about it ? Many thanks !

Report · Jan 18, 2021

Hello, any suggestion about my latest post ?

Many thanks.

Report · Jan 19, 2021

Yes, there are a number of free tools to check the exif data.

You can do a search for 'exif tool gui'. I also use geosetter (not only for geotagging) and XnviewMP.

Report · Jan 19, 2021

I have another finding to share :

For the same series of photos (10 pictures taken in the same minute), some happen to have the right exif information in the catalog and some don't have any exif panel at all. In the second case, the catalog uses the windows "modifié le" date as the picture taken date.

I have no explanation for that.