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PSE 2024 interface and catalog import

Explorer ,
Nov 09, 2023 Nov 09, 2023

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I posted a query about the interface (window resizing and double spaced file tree) which had several likes but no answers so far - hopefully someone from Adobe will address. I hope it was not a deliberate decision to "fix" something that wasn't broken. 

 

On initial installation PSE2024 found my PSE2021 catalog and appeared to import it. However the vast majority of it simply wasn't there, and most folders were not shown.  As I have 18k+ photos the vast majority tagged to my satisfaction, it is imperative that I do not lose it and keep the ability to use 2021 until any further issues with 2024 are resolved (or I ask for my upgrade fee to be returned !) 

 

So: I uninstalled 2024 and any apparently 2024 related catalogs were removed.  I then reinstalled 2024 with a new named catalog "2024 install" which is empty.   My question is how do get it to use my 2021 catalog without making changes to it that will stop it being used by 2021 if I decide not to continue with 2024?     The 2021 system info shows the core version as "2019", with a version date (I guess) of 2021 08 07, and the OS as windows 10 when it is actually Windows 11.  see below.         

"Elements Organizer 19.0.0.0
Core Version: 19.0 (20210807.m.158016)
Language Version: 19.0 (20210807.m.158016)

Current Catalog:
Catalog Name: catalog 2020
Catalog Location: C:\ProgramData\Adobe\Elements Organizer\Catalogs\catalog 2020\
Catalog Size: 157.5MB
Catalog Cache Size: 1.4GB

System:
Operating System Name: Windows 10
Operating System Version: 10.0
System Architecture: Intel CPU Family:6 Model:14 Stepping:12 with MMX, SSE Integer, SSE FP, SSE2
Built-in Memory: 7.8GB
Free Memory: 1.1GB"

 What is actually showing at the catalog location is shown below. There is nothing of the stated catalog size of 157.5mb but a catalog.pse19db file of 161mb.  

 

Any help gratefully recieved ! 

PSE 2021 cat locaton.png

 

TOPICS
Bug , Import and export , Organizer , Problem or error , Windows

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Community Expert , Nov 09, 2023 Nov 09, 2023

@slast said:  So: I uninstalled 2024 and any apparently 2024 related catalogs were removed. 

Uninstalling the program does not remove any catalogs.

 

@slast said:  On initial installation PSE2024 found my PSE2021 catalog and appeared to import it. However the vast majority of it simply wasn't there, and most folders were not shown. As I have 18k+ photos the vast majority tagged to my satisfaction, it is imperative that I do not lose it and keep the ability to use 2021 until any further issues wi

...

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Community Expert ,
Nov 09, 2023 Nov 09, 2023

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@slast said:  So: I uninstalled 2024 and any apparently 2024 related catalogs were removed. 

Uninstalling the program does not remove any catalogs.

 

@slast said:  On initial installation PSE2024 found my PSE2021 catalog and appeared to import it. However the vast majority of it simply wasn't there, and most folders were not shown. As I have 18k+ photos the vast majority tagged to my satisfaction, it is imperative that I do not lose it and keep the ability to use 2021 until any further issues with 2024 are resolved (or I ask for my upgrade fee to be returned !) 

 

Each version's catalog(s) are entirely separate.  When you install a new version, you are prompted to convert the old catalog to the new version's format.  I assume this is what you did.   The program makes a copy of the old version's catalog and retains the old one which can always be used with the version in which it was created.  The old catalog's name will be changed by adding a numeric suffix.  (The name change may be vice versa.)  (Also note that Elements 2021 is version 19, not 2019.  I assume that you have named your old catalog as catalog 2020 because that is the year you created it.)

 

You haven't provided enough information to figure out what went wrong with the prior conversion.  But it doesn't matter.  Here is what you need to do:

 

  • Go to File>Manage Catalogs and a dialog will open
  • Click on the Convert button.  Another dialog will open.
  • Your old catalog named catalog 2020 should show up in the list of catalogs.  If it does, select it and click the Convert button. (It may be in the list with a new name of catalog 2020-1). If the catalog does not show up in the list, it may be because Elements thinks the catalog has been converted previously.  If that is the case, check the box to show previously converted catalogs.  
  • If the catalog still does not show up in the list, click the button to Find More Catalogs and navigate to the correct folder that contains the catalog folder.

 

Ashampoo_Snap_Thursday, November 9, 2023_12h34m18s.png

 

The conversion process can take a while so be patient.  If the previous conversion failed, it may have been because you did not allow the process to finish.

 

And yes, the Help>System Info dialog displays Windows 11 instead of Windows 10.  I don't think that text "bug" has any effect on anything.

 

 

 

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Explorer ,
Nov 10, 2023 Nov 10, 2023

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Hi Greg, 

Thank you for the comprehensive response! 

I followed your instructions and it seemed to work OK. However, it did take a VERY long time (about 25000 pictures ) I left it running and after about an hour a box popped up to say that the process was complete, however it also appeared to be still running. So I left it for another half hour y while all tags appear to be working OK I am not sure if something is still missing. Its showing 18052 catalog items  vs. 18088 for the 2021 organiser.  See image below. 

I'd suggest that Adobe would make it clearer what is happening if instead of asking if the catalog should be CONVERTED (which to means MODIFYING the original) it should ask if gthe user wants to create a copy for the new organiser, since that's what will happen.    

It would 

 

It 

 

   

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Community Expert ,
Nov 11, 2023 Nov 11, 2023

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quote

I'd suggest that Adobe would make it clearer what is happening if instead of asking if the catalog should be CONVERTED (which to means MODIFYING the original) it should ask if gthe user wants to create a copy for the new organiser, since that's what will happen.    

 


By @slast

No, converting is not modifying, it's creating a file in a new format from the original. Modifying is necessarily done in the new format, it's impossible in the original format. and what happens with the original file is not defined by the word "convert". It can be deleted with or without a warning or just kept, since there are situations when that is very useful. The problem is that many amateur users don't realize that deleting is destroying a part of their work which could be the only way to restore their library. So, software editors must make sure they won't be responsible for the loss of precious user data. They mus make sure the file is not deleted or that the user has formally agreed to to the deletion to avoid any trouble with the law.

It's the same for "saving" a psd or tiff file to a jpeg format:  that means creating a file in a new format. So the many users wanting to avoid of deciding about what happens to the original format are ready to accept that the 'saving' loses important properties of the original formats (16 bits for layers...) So many discussions in the Photoshop ecosystem forum about the recent change of t!he save as function!

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Explorer ,
Nov 11, 2023 Nov 11, 2023

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Hi Michel 

So am I correct in taking it that you agree with me that Adobe is not using the word "convert" correctly on this button? The dictionary definition is to change the form, character, or function of something, giving it a different use or function. It means the original form no longer exists, whereas in the Adobe interface the "convert" button does not do that. Just as you describe, it creates a new, second version which can then itself be modified.   I didn't want to change my original  for exactly the reasons you set out, particularly since there were conflicting messages about whether the process was actually finished. 

Steve

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Community Expert ,
Nov 11, 2023 Nov 11, 2023

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quote

Hi Michel 

So am I correct in taking it that you agree with me that Adobe is not using the word "convert" correctly on this button? The dictionary definition is to change the form, character, or function of something, giving it a different use or function. It means the original form no longer exists, whereas in the Adobe interface the "convert" button does not do that. Just as you describe, it creates a new, second version which can then itself be modified.   I didn't want to change my original  for exactly the reasons you set out, particularly since there were conflicting messages about whether the process was actually finished. 

Steve


By @slast

Sorry, I don't agree, because the definition you have found is a correct one, but there is also other correct ones, especially regarding I.T.

- the most current one is for files formats, where "modifying" directly the source file is meaningless. As already stated, modifying is reading the data stored in the original format and entering them in a new container. There must be a different resulting file and a remaining source file unless somebody, the programmer or the user deletes it. There are many file formats converters on the market for image or raw conversion, so using the word "convert" is not an Adobe error.

- The good choice of Adobe is that the resulting catalog folder name is kept, and that the original file is still available and directly usable with the original PSE version.

- In this case it's a file folder conversion involving several database files  conversions in the catalog folder. That's not important for the average PSE organizer user, what is important and not enough explained in the help doc is that a catalog is a folder including many resources, files and datatabases.

- The whole folder can be moved to another location, it always point to the location of each of your media files.

- The main database in that folder is called "catalog.pseXXdb" (XX being 22  24 for PSE2024...) That tells you what is the correct PSE version to open that catalog.

- Every new version of the database itself, container and structure is somehow different: updates of the Sqlite database engine, new database structure from Adobe. The user contents are kept nearly 100% in the conversion.

 

What I wanted to stress was that it's the user who should decide if he deletes old catalogs or archives them.

 

[edited - thanks Greg - I am struggling with my old hardware before upgrading to PSE2024]

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Community Expert ,
Nov 11, 2023 Nov 11, 2023

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@MichelBParis, everything you say is technically correct (almost!).  But, I completely understand Steve's point of view about the ambiguous terminology that is used and how it can cause confusion for the average user.  What the user will see is a catalog named My Catalog being  converted to a new catalog with exactly the same name.  If we were following OS conventions that do not allow files/folders to have the same name in the same storage location, a user could think that his catalog which is still named My Catalog is the same one that was being used in the older version (and has been converted for that purpose).  It is easy to miss the small message that pops up telling the user that the older version catalog has been renamed and given a numeric suffix.  And I'm not sure I agree with you that the resulting old catalog folder name should be kept for the new folder.  It seems to me that the newer catalog should have the suffix since it has been updated.  But reasonable minds can disagree about that.

 

Now to add to the confusion:

 

@MichelBParis said:  The main database in that folder is called "catalog.pseXXdb" (XX being 22 for PSE2024...) 

No, Michel.  In response to all the confusion about version numbers and marketing names, the catalog file for Elements 2024 is catalog.pse24db!!!  😉

 

Ashampoo_Snap_Saturday, November 11, 2023_11h31m7s.png

 

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