Extreme banding in photoshop CC 2020 Windows and macOS

[djile]

Hi All,

This is the second time I've written about this problem, I thought I solved the problem but i didn't.
First of all I want to say, I have tried absolutely everything to solve this problem, and I failed.
- I tried all combinations Prefernces/performance/all combinations - failed
- I tried fresh installs,  windows, updates, drivers, without monitor calibration, and later with monitor calibration - failed 
- I tried windows 7 so it came back to windows 10 again... 
-  I tried with files 16 bits and 8 bits, converted 16 to 8 bits and vice versa... 
This is an example on the Solid color layer to make banding clearer, it is the same when I working with studio image 16 or 8 bits.
So banding appears in photoshop, but when I merge the layers and open in adobe camera raw, the banding disappears...
Therefore, it is more than obvious that some set-up is not good in photoshop so what's the problem?
Once again I have the same problem on windows PC and macbook pro, so the operating system is not a problem, drivers are not a problem, hardware is not a problem,...  (My Windows PC has a 10 bit monitor + radeon RX 580 )

Same problem on 2 operating systems!

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1uVutnGGf-PxOXmoKFN8PniDo6-Bzercf 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ea1el5V3ei8WJFAJ0O-VpZ6pgGaxeiJS 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=14mEs9g1g4oFCMyHDykmhIDYdQLcV_RaI 

[D Fosse]

With an 8-bit display pipeline there will always be banding in a narrow gradient like this. You many have a 10-bit capable monitor - but you also need a 10-bit capable video card, i.e. a Radeon Pro series card.

In addition you need to view at 66.67% zoom ratio or higher. At lower zoom ratios Photoshop uses 8 bit previews.

ACR/Lightroom use dithering to conceal banding, so you won't see it there. This led many people to believe it supports 10 bits, but it doesn't.

10 bit display works perfectly on both my Windows systems, both with NVidia Quadros. But it was a while before I discovered that it has to be enabled in the driver. I assume it is the same with Radeon Pros.

[djile]

Thanks for your reply but,
100% zoom

and? 🙂 and yes,  my graphic supports 10 bit

[D Fosse]

Is it a Radeon Pro series card? And you are using DisplayPort, not DVI or HDMI?

Note that Photoshop specifically requires OpenGL 10 bit support. Not to be confused with DirectX 10 bit support, which almost all cards already have out of the box. Photoshop doesn't use that (that's mostly for games).

[djile]

I use DisplayPort.
But the point is, I worked before graphic card with lower quality graphics card and I didn't have banding like this...
Suddenly when I did the update to photoshop CC 2020 (actually a clean install), the banding went crazy/posterization of the image/artifacts very visible in dark tones... I haven't had that before.

Another example in the photo.
Curves adjustment layer (pulled down to darken) soft brush (opacity 100 flow 100) masking , various sizes
Extra curves layer in contrast mode setting, to emphasize banding, to be more easily visible.
So this is not normal, never, but this has never happened to me like this now.
Even when I save to jpg, this banding stays. This is not normal and should not be this way.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gAj3eJeAdRNvynR4oh727mdqC3JAqib6 

jpg full size 8bit
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1jSHCpFV0H_WdAu6mvkHLDYtBbePdfjzh 

[D Fosse]

Jpeg is guaranteed to make any banding much worse. Not only is it 8 bit only, but the jpeg compression will introduce banding on its own.

Banding happens because there is 8 bit processing somewhere in the pipeline. That's what causes banding. Usually it's the display path. I need to be absolutely clear about this: unless you have a fully functional 10-bit display system, you will see banding in these gradients. And you only get that with a Radeon Pro card, not with a standard Radeon.

What could exaggerate it is a buggy video driver, or a severely broken monitor profile. What monitor, and what calibrator are you using with it? Have you tried updating the driver? How does it look if you turn off GPU in Preferences?

[djile]

Thanks for your time, I appreciate it.
I tried everything, I have the latest driver. I use color navigator 7 (last update). Also all option in Preferences.
I also try a clean installation without monitor calibration. This is very confusing. Because the bandig is much more pronounced than it should be.

[D Fosse]

OK. If it's distinctly more than it used to be, it could be the monitor profile.

I use Colornavigator myself. One potential problem with it is that it makes table-based (LUT) profiles by default, instead of the simpler matrix-based profiles that most other calibrators stick with. These LUT profiles can sometimes be problematic and I have a suspicion that Eizo has a bug here.

It also makes version 4 by default, instead of the more widely supported version 2 specification. This can also cause problems.

You change this when you set up the calibration target, under Profile Policy. You can't change it later when the profile has already been made, so you need to make a new one. Eizo calls matrix profiles "gamma value" in Colornavigator.

I tried Colornavigator 7 for a while, but uninstalled it and reverted to 6 after two weeks. IMO they have taken a fantastic piece of software and made it so "user-friendly" (aka dumbed down) that advanced users can't find what they need anymore. All the useful settings are now hidden under layers of submenus, where they used to be up front.

Anyway, here's how it looks in ColorNavigator 6. Set it to version 2.2 and Gamma value:

[davescm]

Your screen shots are of an 8 bit image so will show banding

One thing to look at though, you are painting on a mask - which is a grayscale image. In Edit > Color Settings what do you have as your Gray working space? It should be sGray or Gray Gamma 2.2 not dot gain x%  . Has that changed between versions?

Dave

[djile]

Hi there,
yes I used 8 bit on your example to make it clearer visible.
The problem is I have banding at the start when I open the raw image in 16bit (or 8 bit). I've never had a problem like this, but never,
Watch the video (video compression emphazise banding but banding is certainly noticeable when I work at PS)
download link:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1voXAMNZHWIN770hjtS_6-qUKJTjt9Zh3 
I deliberately played with exposure/offset/gamma sliders to see what's going on (I deliberately exaggerated)

I have a bending in the natural shadow that the model makes on the background


Do you realize that I can't develop a proper raw image conversion without banding or artifact at the very end.
If I just do some little editing in PS the photo falls apart.

photo of display taken with my phone

[D Fosse]

That doesn't look normal. It could be a v4 LUT profile from Colornavigator. Try making a version 2, matrix-based profile as I described above. I have a feeling that might behave better.

Is this a ProPhoto file? ProPhoto has its own problems in situations like this. There is a very long-standing bug that sometimes produces cyan/red shadow banding in ProPhoto files, if you have GPU set to "Normal" or "Advanced" mode in Preferences. I think I see a hint of cyan-red here.

It's not in the data, only display. The problem is likely in OpenGL code - but curiously MacOS, which no longer uses OpenGL, having replaced it with the native "Metal" framework, is equally affected. A theory is that Metal, for the sake of portability, uses the same calls and APIs. I don't know.

Anyway, digression aside - try an Adobe RGB file. Adobe RGB is not affected by this bug.

[djile]

Yes, I tried to calibrate as you described to me,  it's the same problem.  I also tried Adobe RGB, and Profoto it's the same problem.
I just did a fresh install of windows 10 (version 1909) and now I go step by step.
First to look at how it works with basic windows drivers without a color navigator (without calibration), So then I'll install the latest drivers to see what the changes are... I hope to solve the problem because I'm losing money because I can't work

[djile]

Hi there again,
Finally I think i found a problem,  and that is Legacy Compositing, when I check Legacy Compositing box, and restart photoshop nothing changes, the overlay modes (new preview version) remain the same.
For some reason I can't go back the old way no matter when I check the Legacy Compositing box and restart photoshop.

I have the same problem with tool preset, when I save the tool preset and reopen photoshop tool preset disappears.

[silk-m]

Hi,

I can display 10bit in the following environment.

Photoshop ver. 21.0.2

macOS Catalina 10.15.2
Mac mini (2018) 3 GHz 6-Core i5
Monitor EIZO CS2730 + ColorNavigator 7.0.8.3

Intel UHD Graphics 630:

•   Chipset Model: Intel UHD Graphics 630
•   Type: GPU
•   Bus: Built-In
•   VRAM (Dynamic, Max): 1536 MB
•   Vendor: Intel
•   Device ID: 0x3e9b
•   Revision ID: 0x0000
•   Metal: Supported, feature set macOS GPUFamily2 v1

  Displays: CS2730:

•   Resolution: 2560 x 1440 (QHD/WQHD - Wide Quad High Definition)
•   UI Looks like: 2560 x 1440
•   Framebuffer Depth: 30-Bit Color (ARGB2101010)
•   Main Display: Yes
•   Mirror: Off
•   Online: Yes
•   Rotation: Supported
•   Automatically Adjust Brightness: No
•   Connection Type: DisplayPort

I turned on and off the 30 Bit Display and took screenshots.

And apply the following tone curve to that 8bit screenshot.

30 Bit Display is OFF

30 Bit Display is ON

From this result, I think 30 bit display is possible.

[D Fosse]

In that case it has to be somehow run by the Metal framework in MacOS, not by the Intel GPU driver which does not support 30 bits. Intel GPUs have never, ever, supported 30 bit display. But perhaps this is why the video driver is integrated into MacOS, as opposed to a discrete and separate component as in Windows.

On Windows the requirement is strictly Radeon Pro, or nVidia Quadro. Recently, nVidia started to offer a "studio" branch of drivers for GeForce cards, which also supports OpenGL 30 bit color. I don't know how reliably that works, but on Quadro cards it's rock solid.