Photoshop 10bit support

[Guest]

Hello!

There are 16 and 32bit modes in PS, so my question is: can PS display 10bit color depth per channel if all other components support it? (i.e. Windows 7, ATI FirePro graphics card,10bit monitor connected via Displayport)

If not, will there be an update/plugin? Will the next version of PS support it?

I'm thinking about upgrading. Wouldn't make much sense if the software doesn't support it…

Thanks in advance

Hermann

[Hudechrome]

Salt on broken glass. Yum!

Hot or cold, Chris?

[Aleve_Sicofante]

I've just got an e-mail from Zotac's support in Europe that confirms I can use their GTX 460 model ZT-40402-10P and get 10 bpc from its DisplayPort output. They literally say:

nVidia has confirm that current drivers will support 10 bit output.

Best regards,

Eurotech team

(This is the latest e-mail from a long conversation where I have exposed the issues with 10 bpc and GeForce cards, DVI, HDMI, DisplayPort, etc. It's not the typical first response from marketing. It's taken a few days for them to contact Nvidia and confirm the fact. They will only support 10 bpc from the DisplayPort output.)

This means 10 bpc output is NOT crippled in the drivers and, contrary to the general belief, it would be present in GeForce cards with a DisplayPort (these are rare, indeed, but do exist). It would be nice if Adobe could confirm this as well with Nvidia.

[Zeno_Bokor]

Yes, but this is all very early in it's development yet. There are still questions like, what resolutions are supported? how is it handled with multi-monitors? what operating systems implement this? how many bugs are there related to 10bit support in the drivers/OS/PS?

[klsteven-vBdprK]

Aleve, this is very interesting! I have a GTX 470 with display port. But one question: Take a look at page 28 on this PDF:

http://de.download.nvidia.com/Windows/257.21/257.21_NVIDIA_Control_Panel_Quick_Start_Guide.pdf

There`s an option "deep color for 3D application".

This option should enable 10bit output. Can you find this option in your driver? I cannot

I couldn`t even find it on some driver screenshots that I saw on the web for a Quadro card.

[Aleve_Sicofante]

I don't own any Nvidia GeForce with DisplayPort. I'm just researching the subject in order to implement a 10 bpc workflow for the workstations I build and sell.

As soon as I get my hands on one of these cards (soon), I'll be in close contact with Zotac support regarding how to enable 10 bpc in Windows 7.

[Aleve_Sicofante]

There are still questions like, what resolutions are supported?

The same resolutions available on 8 bpc

how is it handled with multi-monitors?

Why would it be any different than 8 bpc

what operating systems implement this?

Windows 7 implements 8, 10 and 16 bpc

how many bugs are there related to 10bit support in the drivers/OS/PS?

This question is really nit-picking. Every piece of software, no matter what, has bugs.

10 bpc is NOT in its early development at Nvidia. Quadros have supported this for long. The only question here is wether Nvidia wants their GeForce cards to provide 10 bpc support or not. And what Zotac support has been replied by Nvidia itself is that THERE IS  10 bpc in their drivers for GeForce.

[Zeno_Bokor]

how many bugs are there related to 10bit support in the drivers/OS/PS?

This question is really nit-picking. Every piece of software, no matter what, has bugs.

That wasn't my point, my point is that you have to take the bugs inherent in the drivers+OS+PS to figure out exactly how mature the implementation is. Saying that the drivers support 10bits means about as much as saying that it supports the OpenGL Drawing features from Photoshop and look how many video card related threads are around here. All Photoshop needs for OpenGL Drawing are OpenGL 2.0 and Shader Model 3.0 both of which have been available since the Geforce 6xxx/Radeon X1xxx series but it's still one of the most comon problems around here.

[Aleve_Sicofante]

I see. I don't think it's quite comparable (the 10 bpc issue should be easier to address than OpenGL features) but you have a point.

[Hudechrome]

Chris Cox wrote:

For the same reason you don't sprinkle salt on broken glass and call it a window.

LOL!

Apropos, Chris.  Have to file that away in my pithy answers file!

[Guest]

hi there!......

so, this is my expirience........

Win 7 64bit, PScs5, Dell 2711, Ati FirePro 8750, conected thro display port,

latest firepro 8.762 beta5 driver,

yes, all works just fine, U put 10 bit test ramp image in PS and there

is no banding, but in full frame.. windowed.. banding is back, also (of course)

when drag window to another monitor wich has not 10 bit support..........

everithyng looks just nice and work well..... no crashing....

cheers..

bibo.......

[Guest]

Hi, I would like to know if there are any news abuot 10bit support with nVidia cards. I would like to know if there is the 10-bit option in the driver now and if I can use a GTX285 to work with 10-bit colour depth for each channell. I will probabily buy a SpectraView 271 NEC 10-bit monitor, I already have Photoshop 64 CS5 and Windows 7 64.                                            

[Chris Cox]

NVidia has the driver code, and is releasing it on their schedule.

It does require display port, and won't work over DVI.

Check with NVidia for when particular cards may get the driver updates.

[Guest]

Thanks for the asnwer. So we can say that at the moment the only solution to have Photoshop running in 10bit for each channell are ATI video cards? I sent several emails to nVidia but I had no aswer. I know for sure that on cards like the FirePRO V4800 you can easly run Photoshop with 10bit color depth.

So what we need to have 10bit now is:
1) Windows 7

2) Photoshop CS5

3) ATI video card with Display Port

4) Monitor with 10bit panel

Is this right?

[emaini]

You would be correct if Photoshop CS5 was ready to support 10bit

As far as I know, there is still no 10bit support unless I missed an update and software patch.

Right now there are a lot of available piece but I doubt they all play together very well but close enough that probably by next year we will see some more movement in this area.

[Chris Cox]

In the future, you might want to read the previous discussion before commenting.

Photoshop CS5 already supports 10 bit/channel displays, and has been waiting for the video card vendors to fully enable the functionality.

ATI has done so with several of their cards, and this is working for many customers.

NVidia has also done so, but has not announced as many cards yet, and is still rolling out driver updates.

Yes, it does require a display port and a 10 bit/channel capable display.

[emaini]

Apologies, I have been following but it was unclear what/when and was waiting for a more clear statement from Adobe

I am hoping there is KB with a support list of known good working configs at some point

[Guest]

Thanks again.

What I know for sure is that with cards like the FirePRO V4800 (ATI based, with Display Port) and a monitor like the NEC PA271W the 10bit mode is running fine in Photoshop CS5. Of course you have to go to the driver control panel and set the 10bit mode, and you have to reboot. The 10bit mode gives problems with some non-compatibile applications, but in Photoshop it just runs fine. There is a good advantage, easy to see, using the test images: where you have banding in 10bit mode you will have no problems with the same image and 10bit mode. It is difficult to notice it in pitures, but if you have, for example, a blu sky with a gradient you can see some differences, it will be more smooth. I have done some test with the described configuration in the photo sutdio of a friend, we also tried to use an nVidia 285GTX card with no good resoult (it could not find the "10 bit" option in the drivers).

I hope that nVidia relase a driver with 10bit support (as you may know the driver is the same for many VGAs, there is no single driver, for example the last WHQL driver, the 260.89 relased on the 19th of October (yesterday), are good for: desktop GeForce series 6, 7, 8, 9, 100, 200, 300, 400 and desktop ION. In this driver there is nothing I could see for the 10bit support (I did not search for a long time, but there was nothing easy to find).

I will email again nVidia asking them to let me know if it is possibile to use 10bit color depth and let you know if a receive an asnwer.

I am going to buy a 10bit panel and I'd like to use my VGA, otherwise I'll go with the V4800.

[klsteven-YekPUg]

Vittorio,

take a look at http://de.download.nvidia.com/Windows/260.89/260.89_NVIDIA_Control_Panel_Quick_Start_Guide.pdf

page 22: "Deep color for 3D applications". This feature should be there since several driver versions and not be limited to Quadros. But I could never find it on my GTX 470. I have tried to get an answer from nvidia about this parameter in their forum several times, but never got any answer! Do you have an email address where one can actually get in contact with nvidia and can get an answer?

[Guest]

I am sorry I have no direct nVidia mail conctact working. What I do is I write to my dealer (official PNY partner) and I ask nVidia for me.

I could not find the "Deep color for 3D applications" in the driver settings. If I have any news about this I will write on this forum.

Of course for 10bit a Display Port is needed.

[klsteven-YekPUg]

My GTX 470 does have a Display Port. But the Deep Color option is  missing

[PJA_Media]

I have nVidia FX580 and NEC PA271W (10bit) monitor connected via displayport.

I have the latest nVidia drivers installed and can see the 'Deep Color for 3D Applications' option set to 'Allow' - its default setting.

I have Windows 7 desktop configured with Aero themes switched off - So theme is set to 'Windows 7 Basic' (the driver option did not force Aero to switch off as I had previously read)

and have been testing PS CS5 x64 under Win 7 Ultimate x64

I have configured the OpenGL settings in PS CS5, under both 'Normal' and 'Advanced' mode, and even with PS in  full screen, I can not get 10bit color.

There is an interesting ATI article which provides a test image, for which the image's gradient should not show any banding if 10bit color is enabled. I still see this banding with my configuration, so really a bit sorry I wasted all my cash on what is supposed to be an awesome setup.

Any ideas anyone? Any help/advice would be appreciated.

Here's that ATI(AMD) link: http://www.amd.com/us/products/workstation/graphics/tools/pages/tools.aspx

Thanks, Paul

[Chris Cox]

Paul - you need to contact NVidia. Something is still missing in the driver.

[PJA_Media]

Chris. Thanks for the reply.

Is this driver omiission just a problem I have with my driver, or is this global issue with the Quadro driver set (I have latest version: 259.81 for x64)?

Some other notes which may help the issue:

I could not get my monitor to come out of powersave mode when I start up with only the FX580 card installed, 10bit display connected via displayport. Connecting a second monitor to the card via DVI (or even to displayport using the DVI->displayport adaptor) forced this second monitor to diaplay POST and windows startup - once windows starts, the login screen flips over onto the 10bit displayport monitor and both displays show the extended desktop after login - but now I have 2 monitors connected - the 10bit displayport monitor, plus my old 8bit monitor connected using DVI, to the same adapter. In this config, 10bit color doesn't work if I load PS on my 10bit display in full-screen.

The reason I am explaining this is because I'm wondering if for this to work, I should only have a single displayport connected 10bit monitor and not the second monitor using DVI?

I also tried this with 2 graphics adapters installed, my old GeForce 7600GS with my old monitor connected via DVI (in the first slot to allow this to be used for POST/startup/login etc) and the new Quadro FX580 with my new NEC 10bit monitor connected via displayport (in 2nd slot) for extended desktop. Again no joy with displaying 10bit color in PS full-screen.

Any suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Thanks again, Paul

p.s. I can't figure how to speak to nVidia directly - they direct you to the card manufacturer - in my case I think I have a re-badged PNY card (rebranded as Hewlett Packard).

[Chris Cox]

I'm not sure where the problem is. NVidia told us that it would be working by now.

We have tested drivers where it was working.

[emaini]

Chris,

Are there know good combo's of OS/GPU/Monitor/Drivers that you are able to publish or suggest or recommend as a starting point?

I have been specifically monitoring this thread and delayed purchases in hopes of getting a good known set even if I had to fiddle a little to get it working.

Is there a KB or info you can share, or just what some have tried from previous posts?

Enzo