Participating Frequently

Question

RGB vs sRGB

Forum|Forum|6 years ago
May 16, 2019
10 replies
10485 views

After doing some research online I'm not entirely sure which is best for shooting/printing fine art photography with the intention to print large scale images. Anyone who has a clear point of view on this I appreciate your perspective.

julie

rgb vs srgb

This topic has been closed for replies.

J

jdanek

Inspiring

It comes down to what and where you print the images. There are two workflows: 1.) closed loop ( you print internally on your printer ), and 2.) open loop ( you send the images out to be printed on someone else's printer ). In both cases, you could use an experimental file copied and tagged with each of the RGB profiles and print them. Then, there is the paper which will also affect the print, so you will want to print on whatever paper you think works best for your particular photos. If you are going open-loop, your print vendor will have a recommendation on which RGB to use, my guess it is not sRGB.

Bob_Hallam

Legend

Well I would not recommend Adobe 1998 as the color space of choice for the absolute best quality images for Large fine art prints.he correct answer is...it depends on the printing process. sRGB for sure is too small a color space to provide much in the way of saturated colors. Most print processes have a larger gamut. sRGB is the web standard, so save that for your website. Adobe RGB is a good middle of the road color space created by Chris Cox and that's what he made it for. Good for print publications and some smaller gamut printers.

I have a new Epson that when using fine art paper can hit most of the gamut of ProPhoto color space, so that is the color space I use for fine Art prints. If you own the printer, can color manage it and print exclusively through it then you should pick a color profile that is slightly larger than the gamut of the printer and do a perceptual transform when printing.

If your print process is unknown. Ask the provider of your prints to provide a printer profile. You can then easily compare color space profiles with that printer profile using ColorSync on the Mac (if you have one)

If yor monitor gamut is too small to view that color space, and there's money in your budget to get a brighter / better display, do that and you can view the color space your printing in. The new Apple display is excellent for this purpose, but there may be others that can perform well at that brightness level.

ICC programmer and developer, Photographer, artist and color management expert, Print standards and process expert.

D Fosse

Community Expert

From everything I've ever read and seen, the very best inkjet printers, using the very finest papers, can print some colors that are slightly outside Adobe RGB.

Whether that's significant in practice, is an open question. It might be for scientific and forensic purposes, but for general photography I don't think it is. We are talking about very small differences in already very saturated colors.

Good color is not about absolute saturation. More is not necessarily better. Good color is about relationships, internal consistency, and, yes, realism.

Bob_Hallam

Legend

As I said there are printers that can come very close to ProPhoto RGB. (I own one) Certain paper manufacturers provide profiles that can show just how close they can get also. Might be time to look further into that gamut thing.

We are talking "fine Art" here no mention of "oversaturating" color. The purpose of having a large gamut to print within is that it provides the "oportunity" for brighter colors. An image printed on a large gamut printer doesn't necessairly use all of it.

That would depend on the image. Comparison Printing to a large gamut print and a large container RGB space vs a smaller gamut printer and a smaller gamut container RGB space can be dramatic only of the image colors require a large gamut to reproduce.

ICC programmer and developer, Photographer, artist and color management expert, Print standards and process expert.

T

Test Screen Name

Legend

I think you've been looking at a lot of information on the internet. Unfortunately a lot of it is just wrong. This is leaving you with a whole bunch of different ideas which don't fit together. (Of course, we can be wrong too, but I am seeing a lot of agreement).

For example: there is probably no situation in which you set a profile for your monitor to Adobe RGB. Your monitor profile depends on the hardware, and setting it to anything else is fundamentally wrong. But this seems nothing to do with the original question as we understood it. It might help us get the info into shape if, when you ask about doing a particular thing, you let us know what instructions you are trying to follow.

I don't think you ever told us where you had the choice between "RGB" and "sRGB", and we've told you that this is not so much a difficult question, as a question that makes no sense. But you keep returning to the question, so it's the same thing: please tell us where you see this choice, or what tells you to make it.

jdsaintclairAuthor

Participating Frequently

Yeah - I'm frustrating everyone, I can see that. I was watching a photoshop

cc tutorial and the guy said go to view and "I set mine at sRGB" - which

now I can see that was just for output to a jpeg. Anyway - that got me

thinking do I need to set my monitor in a particular way. It's already

calabarated to my printer and I'm getting good results but is this

something I need to pay attention to. Never came up before. Does it make a

difference? I did research on the internet and it just confused me a bit -

saying RGB allows a bigger color spectrum than sRGB. So, I asked myself why

wouldn't I want access to that? But I see know wht you are trying to

communicate. But you are not all saying the same thing tho - here's Daves

answer which says to set it at RGB - my guess is he has a monitor that

shows the greater color spectrum and his own printing process.

Hi

Start at the beginning and shoot Raw files from your camera. These have no

colour space but use 14 bits for each raw channel (12 bits on older

cameras). Don't worry about setting the camera to sRGB or Adobe RGB that is

only for output to 8bit/channel jpegs which you definitely do not want to

do for any work that will be processed later to large prints.

In Adobe Camera Raw or Lightroom you develop your RAW files into a RGB

images and you want the output to be 16 bits/channel. At this point you

also allocate a colour space.

The three most common RGB colour spaces are sRGB (the narrowest space that

covers the least colours), Adobe RGB (wider i.e more colours covered) and

ProPhoto (very wide). You would think, and you do see recommendations, that

you would ouput as Pro-Photo, however it contains lots of colours that you

will never see on a monitor (even a wide gamut monitor) and personally I

use Adobe RGB which easily covers the colours on my monitor and printer.

That way I can predict what is going to print.

If you have to send an image to the web, export a copy and convert it to

sRGB at that Export stage.

If you are serious about colour then you need to ensure that your monitor

is displaying colours correctly. That means using a hardware device to

calibrate and profile the monitor. Photoshop will use the monitor profile

and convert the document colours as it displays them so they look correct

on your monitor.

Dave

On Fri, May 17, 2019 at 9:58 AM Test Screen Name <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

D Fosse

Community Expert

Julie, why are you still talking about "RGB" versus sRGB? We've all been saying, repeatedly, that those two belong to different classes. They are the wrong concepts.

T

Test Screen Name

Legend

Still, Image Mode doesn’t offer a choice of RGB or sRGB...

D Fosse

Community Expert

It could also be that she means sRGB vs. (Adobe) RGB - ?

In any case, it's all well and thoroughly explained above.

T

Test Screen Name

Legend

Which menu seems to give you a choice between RGB and sRGB? Perhaps we can discover why the software is misleading or confusing.

D Fosse

Community Expert

She's probably referring to Image > Mode, with RGB / CMYK modes.

Image Mode is a holdover from back when the working space was the only color space in operation. That was before embedded icc profiles - at the time it was introduced referred to as "multiple working spaces".

Today, with modern color management, the embedded profile overrides the working space - which in turn is reduced to a fallback default for missing profiles and new documents. The proper way to do this now, is to use Edit > Convert to Profile (or Assign Profile if there isn't one already).

In other words - Image Mode isn't needed anymore and shouldn't be used. It doesn't have the necessary precision for a modern workflow.

jdsaintclairAuthor

Participating Frequently

Convert to profile brings up the same window as view - I have it set for

Adobe RGB (1998)

Nancy OShea

Community Expert

You would never put large scale print quality images on the web. The page would take forever to load.

sRGB is all I ever use for web optimized images.

When I'm sending things to an offsite print shop, I use the color space they recommend. In most cases, a CMYK preset. For best results, talk to your print professional.

Nancy O'Shea— Product User & Community Expert

Derek Cross

Community Expert

Nancy, I don't think the OP has mentioned putting her photographs on the web in her question.

davescm

Community Expert

Hi mentioned it in my reply as many who sell large fine art prints do so via a website.

The main point is, with photographs, start with a wide RGB space but one which you can see and control. Hence my use of Adobe RGB for master files.

When printing, many inkjet printers can print a wider gamut than 4 colour CMYK through the use of additional inks. If printing via a commercial firm, Nancy's advice to talk to the printer is always sound, so that you can convert to the profile they require.

Dave

Derek Cross

Community Expert

Apropos the mention by the OP of printing large-scale images, the May issue of InDesign Magazine has a special feature on creating huge layouts for banners, billboards, and other mega-displays. Although primarily aimed at InDesign users, it includes invaluable information about resolution etc, that would be useful to Photoshop users creating large format artwork: https://indesignsecrets.com/issues/issue-121-big-design

davescm

Community Expert

Hi

Start at the beginning and shoot Raw files from your camera. These have no colour space but use 14 bits for each raw channel (12 bits on older cameras). Don't worry about setting the camera to sRGB or Adobe RGB that is only for output to 8bit/channel jpegs which you definitely do not want to do for any work that will be processed later to large prints.

In Adobe Camera Raw or Lightroom you develop your RAW files into a RGB images and you want the output to be 16 bits/channel. At this point you also allocate a colour space.
The three most common RGB colour spaces are sRGB (the narrowest space that covers the least colours), Adobe RGB (wider i.e more colours covered) and ProPhoto (very wide). You would think, and you do see recommendations, that you would ouput as Pro-Photo, however it contains lots of colours that you will never see on a monitor (even a wide gamut monitor) and personally I use Adobe RGB which easily covers the colours on my monitor and printer. That way I can predict what is going to print.
If you have to send an image to the web, export a copy and convert it to sRGB at that Export stage.

If you are serious about colour then you need to ensure that your monitor is displaying colours correctly. That means using a hardware device to calibrate and profile the monitor. Photoshop will use the monitor profile and convert the document colours as it displays them so they look correct on your monitor.

Dave

jdsaintclairAuthor

Participating Frequently

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the info - you have made this more clear to me. I have been doing fine art work for some time but I just upgraded my canon camera to the EOS 6D Mark ll, with new lenses too, so that I can take my work large(er) scale for hotel lobbies and such - in doing so I had to update photoshop and, well, you know the bunny hole - windows pop up and then you have to question things and recheck all your settings. I work with two printers online. I have my monitor calibrated to them and have been getting good results in terms of color match.

So, in conclusion, in reading everyones response and your contribution is

1. leave my camera where is set on default which is sRGB because that is not affecting my raw files -this only effects jpeg files

2. set my photoshop (under view/proof-set-up) to Adobe RGB 1998 as I see no option for just RGB

3. I know how to output small files for web use

4. I check with my printer on best type of file to send for reproduction

Anything else?

davescm

Community Expert

It sounds like you have it under control

Dave

Mike_Gondek10189183

Community Expert

RGB is a color model. sRGB is a color profile within the RGB color model. So you cannot compare them against each other.

If your question is what color profie is best to use, that is very subjective and depends on what you want (subtle tones, color noise, saturation, etc) . You may want to look at ProPhoto, Colormatch RGB, Adobe RGB and color correcting in 16 bit.

Derek Cross

Community Expert

RGB is a color mode, sRGB is a color space.

Always work in RGB color mode in Photoshop, the choice of space is yours, some choose Adobe RGB.

Are you printing to a commercial company or your own desktop inkjet printer and, if so, is it a CMYK printer or a CMYK plus printer?

What do you mean by "large scale images"?

jdsaintclairAuthor

Participating Frequently

Hi Derek -

I'm trying to read all this input and I have done most of what makes sense to me. I've made all the suggested moves that apply to what I'm getting after. I understand camera raw and have made your suggested moves there.

There is still one area that I'm not grasping in how if does or does not affect the final outcome - or if it is only a viewing option that well, could effect the final outcome. It has to do with the proof-set up and proof colors. As I mentioned I have my imac is calibrated to several printers and the work has been coming out very good. Now that I have updated to photoshop cc of course all kinds of new windows and questions and I'm just trying to be sure I've got this right.

From what you've said - this area - proof set-up is just that, a preview. But, if I'm previewing my work, what is the best selection for that? RBG or sRBG? I'm not sure I grasp the significance of color space vs color mode. If you can make an analogy on that concept and why it matter, if it does, please do.

Per Berntsen

Community Expert

jdsaintclair wrote
From what you've said - this area - proof set-up is just that, a preview. But, if I'm previewing my work, what is the best selection for that? RBG or sRBG? I'm not sure I grasp the significance of color space vs color mode. If you can make an analogy on that concept and why it matter, if it does, please do.

When you open an image in Photoshop, you are already previewing it – what you see is a correct representation of the image. So there is no need to use Proof preview.

The RGB color mode is made up of red, green and blue, and everything you see on screen is RGB, because monitors use red, green and blue light to display an image.

The CMYK color mode is made up of cyan, magenta, yellow and black, which are inks used by offset printing presses.

Proof preview is useful for previewing what an image will look like when printed with CMYK inks on paper, but you have to use the correct CMYK profile. And since a monitor can only display RGB, you are only seeing an estimate of how the image will print with CMYK inks on paper.

RGB profiles are detailed descriptions of how colors should be represented on screen.

CMYK profiles are detailed descriptions of how colors should be printed on paper on an offset printing press.

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