Premiere Elements 7 crashes and freezes ->unusable

[_Pijus_Chanda_]

Hello all

For a long time, I was looking for a programm to cut my AVCHD clips taken with a Canon HF100 camera. In the past I used for DV videos Adobe Production Studio (Premiere CS2, Encore CS2). I have tried AVCHD with AVCHDUpshift to convert the AVCHD clips to MPEG clips and cut it with Premiere CS2. The final video I have tried to burn with NERO 8. But this is very cumbersome.
I recently saw, that Adobe has released the Premiere Elements 7 with AVCHD support. Because of the many negative posts of Pinnacle Studio 12, I expected better stability and performance from Adobe Premiere Elements 7. I gave it a try.

Installation was OK.

I tried to add about 50 clips to the AVCHD project -> takes a long time but OK.

Playback quality of the clips is very bad. Video quality is bad (blurry), audio quality even worse (2 seconds you can hear sound, 2 seconds no sound, 2 seconds sound, 2 seconds no sound ....). With PowerDVD playback of the clips is fine (video and audio).

I have put 6 clips on the time line (total of 1 minute with dissolve transitions). After pressing the Enter key, it takes a long time to render. Why? No smartrendering seems possible.

I tried to add a disc menu -> crash. Tried again OK, tried to remove disc menu -> not possible, tried to drag another template to the disc menu-> crash..

Tried two times to select the blu-ray output medium -> crash. Tried it again -> OK.
Tried to export this one minute to blu-ray -> freeze after some minutes saying, not enough memory (in the taskmanager about 2.2GB of the 4 GB are used, premiere.exe used about 1GB)
Tried with different export option MPEG-2, H.264 ->freeze after some minutes, always saying to low in memory.

Tried to export H.264 to file -> OK. But then I have only the movie, and no disc menu. I don't want another program to create the menu and another program to burn it...
Export to Blu-Ray seems impossible.

I have tried to work for 4 hours. I had at least 10 crashes and freezes, then I gave up and deinstalled it.

The support recommends for example to disable Anti-Virus, running Vista in very basic mode (no glass etc.). This is not what I want and this is not the way users have to do with their computer. Not a single bad program has to define the functionality of a good running PC to the minimum.

The bottom line:
This is the worst program I have ever got from Adobe. I would like to know, if somebody had success to burn a blu-Ray disc.

My HW: New HP DC7800 Quad 2.5GHz, 4G Ram, 1x250G Raid1 C:, 1x750G Drive D: Data, OS Vista Business all latest Driver, Blu-Ray Recorder LG GGW-H20L

[Guest]

I'd like to ask that the moderators and regulars here please be a bit more tolerant of frustrated users (like I have been) coming here and venting. Because (in my opinion) it is not fully documented how much resources are required to edit more demanding formats like AVCHD, PE can be a highly frustrating program. Many users (like me) do not realize right away that the "answer people" are just regular users like us. Adobe does not participate here. Unfortunately. I can only hope they read the forum.

Back to the subject at hand....

In a 32 bit OS, all PE can get from the OS is 2GB of virtual memory.... regardless of how much RAM you have. This increases to 3GB with the /3GB switch discussed above. In my experience, 2GB is nowhere near enough for AVCHD or h.264 editing if your project has many clips or is longer than maybe 20 minutes. And while the /3GB switch improves the situation (quite a bit), it can also introduce stability issues because it reduces the amount of addressable memory for the system side of things.

I have found that things get a LOT better on a 64 bit OS, although I think PE (as a 32 bit app) still can only address 4GB. While experimenting with Windows 7, I found that PE ran just fine until my total memory usage (as reported by task manager) approached 4GB. PE got flakey at about the same time as the memory in use reached 4GB. And 4GB is plenty for most usage...... although a couple hours of h.264 clips can still make it run out of memory.

So until Adobe either releases a 64 bit version or improves the way PE uses resources...... or publishes more detailed information re: editing AVCHD, there will probably be a steady stream of frustrated users finding their way here.

Paul

[Steve Grisetti]

Good points all around, Paul.

Meantime, for those who just want to vent, we've created the Top Issues forum at the top of this forum. Vent away! I'll only censor the most offensive language.

But just a reminder that this forum isn't staffed by Adobe. It's run by volunteers, like me, who spend upwards of 20-30 hours a week here, doing the best we can to help people get up and running with this Premiere Elements, a program we believe in and want to share that experience with others.

Posting messages that just call the software a piece of crap doesn't benefit anyone -- and Adobe rarely checks into the forum, so your message doesn't get to them. It's just a slap in the face of the people who just want to help you.

So, please, aim your venting Adobe-ward by clicking the Contact button at the top of this page.

On this forum, ask and we'll do what we can to help. Deal?

[the_wine_snob]

Well stated Steve.

In my years on these fora, going back to before there was even a Premiere program, I find that if most people would state their hardware specs, their OS and any other programs running, their Asset and Project specs, plus exactly what they are doing, when the problem occurs, they would get a lot more help and get it much more quickly.

The time and space spent "venting" could be put to much better use. Also, there are probably many, who could help, who just pass up a rant, rather than try to help the OP work though their issues.

As I've stated elsewhere, the vast majority of the problems are system/OS/other programs, Assets next, OE next and then real Bugs way, way down the list. CS4 might prove to be the exception to that ratio though.

I would also expect a new version that is fully 64-bit compliant to be in the works. Unfortunately, folk still using 32-bit (depending on backward compatibility) will then scream that Adobe has abandoned them, like the SSE2 instruction set of a couple of years ago.

Last, and I'll end MY "rant:" when approaching a problem, tagging onto a post with "hey, I have the same problem," is not enough. One may have the same problem, but it may not stem from the same circumstances. Please post all info. Making a responder read back through a thread to find out what another poster had for system/Poject/Asset specs. is not likely to yield much help.

Help us to help you,

Hunt

[Guest]

Steve and Hunt,

Wouldn't it be a good idea to add an FAQ, separate from all others, that discusses the demands placed on the system by h.264 and AVCHD projects? Merely pointing out that "it is best" to convert to DV-AVI doesn't play well with people (like me) who expect the software we just bought (from a major software company) to work as advertised. PE7 is marketed to people with cameras using h.264 and AVCHD formats. I think it is understandable why people like me are primed to vent when the first response to a report of PE crashing while editing AVCHD is to say that we need to edit in another file format. While that is a very valid work around, it doesn't sit well after reading on the box that PE7 supports AVCHD.

An FAQ that outlines the real world processor and memory requirements to edit various lengths and number of clips is a more direct (and less frustrating) way of getting the message across. Wouldn't hurt to include a section on RAM, virtual memory and the constraints of a 32 bit OS on a resource hungry app like PE. I don't know much but what I do know, I learned while trying to get PE to work 😉

Perhaps also run a thread to collect the experiences of people like me who edit these formats to get a better handle on real world system requirements?

As a start, my experience is that with PE3, you are potentially in trouble whenever Task Manager reports more than maybe 1.4GB in use (whether or not PE reports that it is low on resources). That rises to around 1.8GB in PE7. If you enable the /3GB switch (and your system still boots), that rises to maybe 2GB or more. Running PE7 on Windows 7 (x64), PE can use close to 4GB (as reported by Task Manager) before it gets flakey. This is independent of the amount or RAM in the system. These are approximate figures, but with more input data from other users, a better picture should emerge. Armed with this data (and with Task Manager open), users could edit with greater confidence.

Too bad Adobe ISN'T listening.... adding a simple resource monitor to the main app would probably eliminate a lot of these issues. Whether or not some subroutine reports that it is out of resources, the main app should be able to query the system and give advance warning.

Paul

[Steve Grisetti]

That FAQ, re AVCHD, has been there since last September, Paul. ;)
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b699a8/8

[Guest]

Yes, the FAQ is there. But it does not address real world requirements and limitations like what I posted above. I'm talking about a listing of what it really requires to edit a certain amount of h.264 or AVCHD video, not generic recommendations. Or conversely, with x amount of RAM / virtual memory available, you can expect trouble past y amount of video.

For example, my desktop is a 3GHz C2Duo with 4GB RAM running XP Pro SP3 (x32). Plenty of horsepower, supposedly. It is pretty zippy and PE7 has no trouble at all with AVCHD..... until its memory requirement exceeds the 2GB virtual memory available to any given application in a 32 bit OS. And that can happen without warning and with as little as 20 minutes on the timeline, especially if I want to do a menu structure.

The FAQ does not address 32 bit memory limitation at all, and I suspect THAT is the biggest problem when AVCHD editing fails with a freeze or crash. In my opinion, how much RAM or what processor you have primarily affects system responsiveness. The true limiting factor is that AVCHD editing with PE requires a LOT of virtual memory. Even what many users would call "small" projects can easily exceed what is possible on a 32 bit system. Come home from vacation with an hour of AVCHD, drop it onto the timeline and do a DVD menu structure and I'll bet you run out of virtual memory regardless of how much RAM you have. I don't think many camcorder owners would call that excessive. Adding this to an FAQ will at least clue people in to watch memory usage.

Paul

[the_wine_snob]

Paul,

That sounds like a logical request. I'd help out, but unfortunately do not shoot, nor do I edit, AVCHD to test. I'm not sure whether Steve does, or not. Maybe other forum members could offer their observations, plus the users on Muvipix.com.

It would have to be a YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary) situation, because there could be a lot of other considerations like what programs, besides PE are running. Still, I would think that some real world generalizations might help. If nothing else, it might give an indicator of when one should consider breaking a Project apart, into discreet pieces, etc.

If you could put together some of your observations, regarding Duration, etc., I think it would be a good step. If there are enough usable reports "from the field," I'll bet that Steve would gladly add an abstract of them to the FAQ. I'd be glad to help him assemble the data, but I just cannot report it - yet.

We'll see what Mr. Steve has to say. He knows how to contact me and I'll do all that I can to help him.

Hunt

[Steve Grisetti]

I'm with you, Hunt. I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all solution for AVCHD editing. But, Paul, if you want to propose a FAQ on the subject, I'll be glad to publish it to our permanent collection.

One simple solution to working with bulky AVCHD video is proxy editing, a feature Premiere Elements doesn't have built in but which Muvipix's Robert Johnston wrote this hack for.
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.59b726ee

Proxy editing means that you edit a lower resolution "work print" of your hi-def or AVCHD video. When it comes time to output, the effects and cuts you've applied to the proxy will be applied to the native HD or AVCHD footage.

[jeemster]

The program needs to accommodate the 32 bit system and there are ways to work around virtual memory (like using program swap space). I have an editor that will open any sized file as an example.
In my case, it is a 64bit machine but the OS is 32bit as that is what shipped on the machine.

If there is a limit on the size of the project, then it should be stated on the box.

All most any program will work if you open it and do not do anything; but the utility is a bit diminished.

And in paid for software, regular freezing and crashes are unacceptable.

And as stated, there is no one point where these crashes or freezes take place. They appear to be random. The sysinternals process monitor shows the OS is NOT out of resources and other programs are responsive.

IMHO the program is buggy.
-jim

[Guest]

As I understand it, the fact that other programs are still responsive does NOT indicate that PE is not out of resources. The OS hands out 4GB of virtual memory to EACH program (split 50/50 between the app and the system) regardless of how much RAM vou have. So PE can chew up its 2GB and run out while another app still has plenty of virtual memory left. This may or may not be accurately reflected by Task Manager or other utility.

I used to think the program was buggy too. And in fact, I still do. But that belief is moderated by the slow realization that it is simply too resource-intensive when working in a 32 bit environment and editing highly compressed HD projects. I suspect many random bugs and crashes are in fact resource issues that are not immediately apparent to the user due to how PE uses resources and reports back to the user. For example, back when I was struggling with PE3 and h.264, it was rock solid until Task Manager reported that memory usage had reached about 1.4GB for any reason. After that, it was all bets off and if it reached 1.5GB, it was almost certain to crash or freeze (almost always without any warning). When rendering you could watch the memory usage creep up slowly but steadily and I'll bet that things like the dreaded "The software used...." error was in fact a resource issue.

Since I do shoot in h.264 (Sanyo HD700) and AVCHD (Canon HF100), I'll put it on my list to do some experimentation and see if I can come up with some decent guidelines. I run XP Pro (x32) and Windows 7 (x64) so I can play in both worlds. And I now have enough AVCHD material in the can to easily crash it so maybe I can get a handle on what is OK and what is not. I could also use some input from anyone who understands it re: what exactly Task Manager is reporting when it shows "memory in use".

I'll also play with the proxy editing workaround mentioned above. That might be the best approach until a 64 bit version is released.

And yes, I agree with Jim that FAR better information needs to be published by Adobe so users know what they can and cannot do with the system they have. Adobe has that information. Failing to publish it (or waiting until WE generate it) only leads to frustration and dissatisfaction after the purchase. I stand by my earlier statement... I am sure a very common scenario these days is.... customer buys an AVCHD camera, goes on vacation, comes home, loads the vacation videos into PE because it says he can.... he has at least the minimum system, right? And PE chokes because it can't handle an hour of AVCHD. The veteran users here (who generally don't shoot in AVCHD) repeat over and over how to do various work-arounds. But that only adds to the frustration when we find out we can't do what we thought we could do.

I have looked (I think) at all the other affordable editors (including some Linux solutions) and I still am totally convinced PE is the best of the best. That is, after all, why I am still here. Small comfort though when I can choke it while editing 30 minutes of AVCHD 😉

So if I can't fix it or get Adobe to fix it, I'll become part of the solution and at least see if I can develop some guidelines.

Paul

[jeemster]

I do not have these issues with Nero or Sony's Vegas products on the same machine and using the same AVCHD files form a Sony HDR-SR11.

-jim

[Steve Grisetti]

I hope this doesn't sound cynical but, if Vegas handles AVCHD more efficiently, who not use Vegas?

The biggest challenge with Premiere Elements and AVCHD is that the program edits these files natively, rather than using a proxy (a lower-resolution working file). This is why it demands so many more resources than some other programs.

I think I've linked you to a way to force the program to create a proxy above. And it would be a real bonus if Adobe incorporated proxy editing into the next generation of the program, in my not so humble opinion.

[Guest]

I'm not Jim but I have tried Vegas. Seemed like a capable program but the trial does not include DVD authoring. I think the retail version includes a DVD authoring program but it was not clear if that separate authoring program could automatically create chapter markers at clip boundaries like PE can. Since it was more expensive than PE and it wasn't clear how DVD authoring worked, I gave it a pass. Many of my projects use quite a few clips and it is very convenient to be able to hit a button and have all the chapter markers created automatically.... and accurately.

I did try choking it with a large h.264 project and I can report that I succeeded without too much effort. It seemed somewhat more robust than PE, but then again it was not trying to handle DVD menu creation either so it was likely using fewer resources for the video on the timeline.

Paul

[jeemster]

I do.

But I paid for PE7 as it is supposed to be the best and I paid for it!
-jim

[Ed.Macke]

Let me start by saying that I love PRE, but I agree that it can be very flaky.

If I had a nickel for every time it just crashed when I tried to do ____ (fill in the blank), I could afford the Premiere Pro version.

However, I think that at least some of the times it's a case of shooting the messenger. PRE depends on many other actors: video drivers, audio drivers, Windows memory management, etc. etc. and it could very well be that PRE is doing everything correctly and it's these other software components that are behaving badly.

For example, in PRE3 I had a situation where opening a particular DV-AVI file would cause PRE to crash. After several days of Googling, I finally discovered it was a bug in Windows itself having to do with thumbnail generation for DV-AVI files. Premiere was simply asking Windows to display a list of files, Windows' response was to crash, which in turn caused Premiere to crash.

Could PRE have handled the situation more gracefully? Well, probably. But we seriously can't expect Adobe to plan for every possible Windows bug. And nVidia bug. And Turtle Beach bug.

I think many times the flakiness we see in PRE - and blame on PRE - is really flakiness of the underlying subsystems.

Why PRE has issues and Sony (or others don't)... dunno. I'm sure that PRE has bugs - I've found more than one that had nothing to do with Windows, et. al. It might also be that PRE has more power and stresses these components more. I think it's interesting to note if you look through these forums how many "Premiere" bugs have been solved by upgrading video drivers, audio drivers, Quicktime and optimizing the box it runs on (defrag, free space, memory, etc.).

On one hand, I think Adobe's built an incredible piece of software, especially for the price. On the other hand, especially lately I think they have focused on adding dubious features and dropping the ball on Q.A. Especially frustrating is bugs that pop up are RARELY, if ever, fixed via an update. You have to wait - and pay for - the next version and hope the bug is fixed. And sometimes not even then.

Their Lightroom product had version 1.0, 1.1, 1.2. 1.3. 1.4 that dealt with bug issues and support for emerging technology. Where is PRE v4.1, 4.2, 4.3???

Just my thoughts.

[Sorunda]

Good evening!

Just installed PRE7 and started editing my old videofiles(Canon MV30).
On the computer they are imported as .avi files.

After a while editing I get the warning of "almost out of memory. be careful". Checking the task manager PRE uses just below 1GB ram. I have 3.

It happened a few times this weekend and I had to stop using it and swap to Vegas which work perfectly.

I also have a new Sony HDR-SR12E recordning in AVCHD format which runs perfect in Vegas.

What happens when I try to use the higher resolution in PRE?

I also thought that Adobe makes reallly good software.

/Lasse

[Steve Grisetti]

Your MV30 is a miniDV camcorder and if you're capturing AVIs over FireWire, you're using a pretty efficient file format (assuming your project is set up properly). You should only be seeing red lines above clips on your timeline that have had effects or transitions added to them.

So, if you're getting out of memory warnings using only that video, I'm concerned about your computer hardware. You can relief some of this by pressing Enter to render your timeline. But, if you're getting low (under 30 gigs of free, defragmented space) on your hard drive, you could be headed for serious problems.

As for AVCHD, yes, Premiere Elements demands a tremendous amount of computer power to run it. Most people say a minimum quad core processor and 4 gigs of RAM in addition to lots of hard drive space and your Premiere Elements project (very important) set for editing AVCHD.

If your specs are less than this and you're getting decent performance with other software, you may wan to stick with that other software until you're able to a much faster computer.

Meantime, if you have any other questions, you may want to start your own thread so that others can see it. Right now you've posted 66 messages down in a 4 month old thread and your question is liable to get lost!

[Sorunda]

Fast response, thanks for that.

I am really new to this and i found this thread using FAQ from Adobe.com.
It seems interesting that this problem is not only noticed by me.

My computer is running Vista premium, it has a quadcore processor, 3 GB ram and hundreds of GB free diskspace.
When I experienced the problem I used an external USB-drive with 1TB hard disk(450 GB free). My system disk has approx. 110 GB free space and is not fragmented.

I have tried a copy of this Vegas software and it just never stops or crashes. My basic idea was to actually buy my video editing software and since I have only good experiences with Adobe and the new version of PRE also supports AVCHD it seemed like a good idea to buy it.

I will keep reading this forum..

Thanks..

/Lasse

[_L-Edwards_]

Please help me capture my video from tape. PE7 craps out before I get to square one.

But thanks for being here to help. (Saying that after deleting all my ventings -- I simply couldn't proceed without typing them out first.)

WinXp-Pro, 2 gb ram, plenty of disk space, 1.6 ghz dual-core. About 29 minutes into my tape the capture stops, but my tape keeps running.
PE7 then behaved very flakey -- it would not terminate and I had to kill it from Process Explorer, and I couldn't even do a clean system shutdown.

During shutdown I got the error: "The exception unknown software exception (0x0000000d) occurred in the application at location 0x78138AA0.

-- Larry (ears smoking)

[Steve Grisetti]

As I said to Lasse above, you are 70 posts into a 4 month old thread. PLEASE start your own threads so we can respond to your issues!!

[the_wine_snob]

As Steve points out, most readers of this forum will not likely drill down to threads this old. Only a few of us have read everything here, and then fewer might have bookmarked this particular thread.

By posting you own, you will likely get far more responses, as many more will see your post.

When you do post, please list all details of both your system and your Project. Give special attention to the Assets, and detail them completely, i.e. Duration, file type, CODEC used (get G-Spot from www.headbands.com/gspot to find out the CODEC) and what you are doing, when you get the error.

The more info, the better,

Hunt

[John T Smith]

This is aimed a Premiere Pro, but may help - First, work through the steps here http://ppro.wikia.com/wiki/Troubleshooting

If your problem isn't fixed, report back with the DETAILS asked for in the questions at the end of that link

[kentRda]

Steve, My name is Kent Roorda. You probably remember me from PE4 days. I just tried posting this message a few minutes ago, but it doesn't appear as though it was accepted. Therefore, I'm typing it again. (Forgive me if this message ends up being a duplicate).
I just got a new AVCHD camera and am trying to edit about 25 minutes of video with PE7. Unfortunately, I can't get through it without crashing and/or freezing. My computer is a Dual Core 2.4GHz, w/4GB of RAM. However, after reading the forums, it appears as though AVCHD is certainly pushing the limit of my computer. Of course, I have taken all the usual steps to maximize the efficiency of my computer. Nevertheless, I can't get anywhere in PE7 without crashing. On some of the messages in the forum, I've seen you write about a 3GB switch. However, I haven't been able to find a link to the instructions for creating such a switch. Can you help me with that? Also, if you have any other suggestions for me, I would greatly appreciate your input. Thanks in advance. Kent

[Guest]

Hi Kent, best to start a new thread so that your problem gets more visibility rather than post in this 6 month old thread.

Anyways, your 2.4GHz dual core should be capable of editing 25 minutes of AVCHD. It may not be a very smooth editing experience but you shouldn't be getting crashes.

[_Benjamin_Williamsz_]

Hi there...I am running a Core 2 2.6 with 2 gigs of RAM. I have been trying for a while to edit about an hour of standard-def mp4 video that I took with an old hi-8 camera. Its nothing special, but after about 10 minutes of editing, the program freezes and I lose my work. I have tried everything that I can think of, from giving the program more privileges to running it in compatibility mode. Is there any way to force the OS to give Premier Elements 7 more resources?