P: Frame substitution attempt aborting error - .MXF Files Fixed in version 25

[Anthony LV]

UPDATE 10-14-24:  

MXF file frame substitution errors has been fixed in version 25 of Premiere Pro 

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I've seen a number of posts about this, and am now running into the problem myself. Although there are a few differences I'd like to share that I'm hoping may shed more light on what appears to be a longstanding issue.

Specs: M3 Max Macbook Pro (64GB RAM), Sonoma 14.3.1, Premiere Pro 24.1.0

The .MXF files were shot XAVC-I from the Sony FX6 shot on a V90 card. I copied the entire memory card structure to my internal drive, and imported the clips using the media browser. The clips are 59.94 fps and 23.976 fps on a 23.976 timeline.

As I perform regular editing tasks (slowing 59.94 clips to 40%, adding clips to timeline, scrolling through), I get these error messages.

BUT, here's the kicker: I'm not actually seeing dropped frames yet. For one of the clips I received the error on, I decided to go to the source window and scroll through frame by frame. I didn't see any black frames, but scrolling through did create 9 new error messages at different frames.

Aside from the error popups being annoying, this is a project that many people are depending on. If these dropped frames actually do end up showing, I'll be in a bad spot. It seems as though with every new project, I have to factor in at least a day to deal with errors or bugs in Premiere. I shouldn't have to be constantly fighting with the tools that allow me to do my job. Moreover, the C70 and FX6 both shoot in .MXF and are fixtures of video production. Frankly, I'm taken aback that there hasn't been more meaningful support from Adobe on this.

I'm currently creating ProRes Proxies to see if that may solve the issue, but I'm concerned that this will only solve the problem in editing, and the error (dropped frames) may show up once exported.

Does anyone have thoughts on why this may be happening? Is it time to switch to Resolve like everyone seems to be saying, or could this be a workflow issue on my end?

Many thanks!

[HealthFirst]

Hi,

Deleting the media cache was the first thing I did. I hve been editing since the U-matic days, fourteen years now with Adobe. As soon as I reverted to 24.41, the issue stopped. The camera is a Canon XA 40. Wrapper type: MXF OP1a (type: SingleItem SinglePackage MultiTrack Stream Internal)
File generated by: CANON, XA40 (1.00)
H.264/MPEG-4 AVC Long GOP High Profile 4:2:0 Unconstrained Coding. This is a new issue.

I can share the ulog_CC_Premiere Pro log of the event.

[telecam2]

Sorry, working under deadline, can't troubleshoot. Installed and tested latest update twice this weekend. Will keep using previous version for now. 

[Tony Zed]

In my experience, this error seems to result from a frame cache error. I've always gotten it when I would do something like make some footage slow-mo, like with Twixtor or something, where it would be nested and then pre-rendered. I would make a change inside my nest; I would get this error in my main timeline because it does not realize that my footage was somehow changed. Still, nothing in my timeline was changed, which is how it would detect a frame change is a change in the timeline, but since the change happened inside the nest and not in the timeline, bingo bango, it can't figure out what the discrepancy is, and there ya go with an error.

use that little bit of pseudo-technical insight to help you in the future. As for now, the quick answer I can offer is to

1. try clearing your cache
2. go to the sequence menu (top of the screen) and delete render files
and to address the root of the problem (I'm willing to bet) 
3. go to sequence settings, down in the view previews section, and play around with file format and codec.

Whenever Adobe makes updates that involve codec/video format compatibility, there tend to be a few bugs that need to be sorted on the initial release. If you want to point the finger, I'll humbly point out that you'd be more righteous to point the finger at Mac and Windows's inability to play nice together, whilst Adobe is the one in the middle trying to play peacemaker. (The camera companies aren't without guilt, but if you're on a Windows computer like myself, I can tell you from personal experience that 90% of these issues arise for me after a 'codec/format improvement heavy update' because of some compatibility issue with an apple codec such as prores and the like.) Worry not; a quick change of codec in preview settings or switching to I-frame usually solves the problem, and like clockwork, Adobe will have a fix for it in the next minor update.

Mod note: Some slight edits to the text were made for readability and format.

[telecam2]

• Reloaded 24.4.1
• Created a simple test project.
• Imported Sony AVC-L footage and saw same issue.  Multiple "Frame Sustitition Recursion" errors while loading the project, a bunch of clips showing black in the bin.  Playback of anything (clip in bin, timeline....) impossible.  Project unusable
• Clicked off H264/HEVC "hardware accelerated decoding" in the Media settings.  Btw, why are they two different settings with the same name but the first one give you options to select "Intel" or "Nvidia" or both.  That's confusing, not sure what to check on/off...  Clicked off both and restarted Premiere.
• All clips show video in the bin but playback is painfully slow, basically unusable.
• Reloaded 24.3, everything snappy and playing fine
• You have got a problem with this version handling Sony's MXF AVC-L media files.
• Surprised this bug can get through QC.  Sony AVC-L is a very popular file format... That said, probably a simple fix in a .x release.

HP Z Book workstation

Windows 11

Media is on G-Raid Thunderbolt External Drives

[jamieclarke]

HI telecam2 - Thank you for your help troubleshooting, I really appreciate it.  Do you have any plugins installed?  Can you send me one of the files that shows up black in the new version?

[telecam2]

Yes, I have a few plugins installed, all transition effects.  Although, not of the plugins are used in my test project.  Here is a link to a clip that shows as black clip under 24.4.1.

https://www.swisstransfer.com/d/9e0b2a97-c32a-494f-82d1-98cd941b7acc

[telecam2]

You did not answer my question as why there are two H264/HEVC harware accelaration settings in the Media settings panel?  Are those automatically set when installing Premiere Pro by looking at what graphic processor is on the computer?  FYI, my HP Zbook has a Nvidia RTX A3000 12GB Laptop GBU.  Driver version 538.18.

[jamieclarke]

Thank you for the file!  I imported it into 24.4.1 with no problems.  Can you try holding down the shift key and open premiere > select reset plugin cache and disable plugins.  Let me know if that does anything.

[telecam2]

Sure but working on the field today.  I'll test it once i am back to the studio later.

Thanks.

[jamieclarke]

As for the hardware acceleration settings.  The top one is hardware acceleration decoding or playing back material in Premiere Pro.  The bottom one is hardware acceleration encoding or exporting material.  Premiere can take advantage of your cpu and speed up tasks with H.264 or HEVC files.

[telecam2]

@jamieclarke I was able to quickly test this before I headed out.  I just chose the option to reset the plugin cache and all is working on the test project.  I'll test further later.

[telecam2]

@jamieclarke also tested it with my ongoing project and everything is fine.  Clearing the plugins cache was the fix.  Maybe that should be part of the standard software upgrade routine?  Anyway, thanks for jumping in, I am releived I can use 24.4.1, looking forward to the new audio features 🙂

[jamieclarke]

I'm glad everything is working!  Keep us updated if you have any more trouble.  I agree Premiere should clear the plugin cache on every new install.

[jamieclarke]

Hi @Juerg5CF2 - I'm checkin on your status with this issue.  Are you still getting these error messages?

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hello @Juerg5CF2 and @ghuff,

Are you experiencing this bug still? Let the team know.

Thanks,
Kevin

[el hombreorquesta]

Hello, I have the same issue. Downgrading a version before "solves" the problem. I think is about some inner garbage stored somewhere of Adobe (delete the cache doesn't work) .  But in the new version if you rename the files and start a new project everything seems to work well. I use Canon R5C and Canon C70. We are professional users, we are not using some strange codec or something like that. We appreciate all IA features but...man.. Please, solid structure first.

[JOHN MONDO]

Error Retrieving Frame errors have been around for a long while (most of them attributable to older media or dodgy hardware/cables etc) but this problem seems more specific, affecting a particular type of very specific (and very popular) mxf file from the Sony FX6. ERF errors are simply timing errors which is why one drive might not exhibit the errors and another might, even if they seem very similar. Remember, an NLE has a lot of work to do, decoding a highly compressed file in an MXF wrapper. In an effort to improve something else, Adobe appear to have introduced a big problem. Working from a NAS, even via 10Gbit connection can exacerbate this as NAS connections include a certain amount of network overhead which introduces... timing issues. Even via a Thunderbolt NAS you are still using a network protocol. This problem is also showing up on local drives but for those experiencing it over a NAS I'd suggest at least trying a very fast local drive while Adobe sorts it. Or downgrading to a previous version that was working for you. One thing that will work is transcoding the source media to an intraframe codec like ProRes or DnxHD (each frame discrete).

[chrislognion]

We are using Canon C70s as well.  Can you please tell me exactly what you did to get up and running again?  I'm a veteran editor as well and have been using Adobe since the very beginning of Pro 1.0.  I have attempted everything except to transcode my files (like an Adobe rep suggested). 

[ghuff]

Kevin, so far it seems to be much less with 24.4.1.

[Bekim Abduramani]

Hi. The only stable version for me is 24.1. I tried 24.3 and the latest 24.4.1 and the bug is still there. I think we jinxed premiere guys. I just rolled back to 24.1 and its working great but i would have liked to use the newest updates.

PLEASE ADOBE FIX THIS. Its embarrassing guys.

[el hombreorquesta]

Hi! Rename the files (it's a mess). Or make another project and reimport again all the files. I think the problem is if you have already imported the files (.MXF) the new version cannot read those files properly for whaterver reason. I have some very big projects and I'm editing right now with the previous version. You cannot have 2 versions at the same time but you can try with the beta version to see what happens. Hope this helps

[ghuff]

Working on a project just now with DCI 4K (4096x2160) XF-AVC LongGOP footage off a Sandisk Extreme Pro 4TB drive and I'm getting a host of the frame recursion errors while the playhead is still and I'm not even scrubbing.

[viperv95564569]

Same issue here. Cannot renter old projects anymore. Same codec but 50fps. Come on, Adobe....

[Juerg5CF2]

Hi Jamie and Clark

Thanks for asking, but I am a professional filmmaker and me and my clients do not have the time to wait months for a solution.

Due to the general Adobe Premiere Pro and its affiliated programs robustness problems with basic operations, with best selling cameras using standard codecs involved, I was forced to switch to Davinci Resolve.

This caused me a great amount of stress, since I had multiple projects with tight deadlines and a new software I had to get familiar with. 

I do understand that it can be challenging for you to cope with all the different hardware that is out there. But for professional filmmakers, there is one basic need above all: before you start to incorporate fancy AI stuff, please ensure that basic operations with the most popular cams and codecs work 100%.

As for me, I switched to Davinci for now. I wasted weeks on testing things for you (this is not the only issue I had), had your techs remote support my PC to no avail, and I am done for now with Premiere Pro. I am aware that Davinci might face similar issues in the future, this is when I consider going back to Premiere Pro. For now, I get the impression that the Davinci folks rate robustness higher than new features, which is totally fine with me.

[Juerg5CF2]

Viper and Ghuff, I feel for you guys, I really do!