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Chris WAle
Participant
July 2, 2017
Answered

Adjustment Layer, Keyframes, and the Rate Stretch Tool

  • July 2, 2017
  • 2 replies
  • 5323 views

To the Premiere community

Question: Does anyone know why animation effect key frames 'stop working' on an adjustment layer when the 'rate stretch tool' is applied to the adjustment layer clip?

I've done multiple tests, and I've found that using the rate stretch tool on an adjustment layer in order to squeeze or stretch the animation effect, causes the animation to stop working.  Even though the key frames remain in the effect panel and the effect values (or sliders) continue to change during playback.

Testing Scenario:

  • Inserted video clip into sequence.
  • Inserted adjustment layer, above video clip.
  • Applied Lumetri Color (Exposure) effect to the adjustment layer.
  • Inserted multiple animation key frames to adjust the Lumetri Color (Exposure).
  • All works as expected.
  • Applied the rate stretch tool the adjustment layer - squeezing the adjustment layer clip shorter - in order to speed up the key frame animation.
  • Adjustment layer animation key frames stop working, even though the key frames are still placed in the effect controls panel (and have been squeezed shorter), the Lumetri Color (Exposure) slider moves with the animation during playback, but the Lumeri Color (Exposure) effect seems to be ignored.
  • Even when restarting the project, restarting the PC, or even exporting the project media, the animation effects stop working all together.

Testing notes

  • I'm using Adobe Premiere CC 2017, latest update.
  • I've tested this with multiple video types and multiple projects
  • I've tested this with various effects, none seem to work after the rate stretch tool has been applied to the adjustment layer.
  • I've restarted the PC
  • My conclusion is that this might be a bug when stretching (or squeezing) adjustment layers using the rate stretch tool.
  • For the purpose of this example, I've kept the scenario above simplified, but normally there would be multiple animation effects applied to the adjustment layer, which make editing the key frames directly much more complicated, in such situations, it would be much easier to use the rate stretch tool.

Conclusion:

  • Bug with the adjustment layer animation effects?

Purpose:

  • The reason I'd like to be able to use the rate stretch tool on an adjustment layer (with effect animations) would be to speed up or slow down the animation of the effects.
  • This might be necessary in the following situations:
    • Video clip is slowed down or speed up (using the rate stretch tool), in which case the animation in the adjustment layer will need to be stretched (or squeezed) to match the new speed.
    • Video clip is shortened or lengthened and the editor desires for the effect animation to be stretched (or squeezed) to match the new video length.

If anyone has any input, that would be appreciated.

Regards

Chris Wale

This topic has been closed for replies.
Correct answer R Neil Haugen

Ann, why would you 'never' use the rate stretch tool for stretching or shrinking key frames on an adjustment layer? The rate stretch tool is designed exactly for this purpose... to stretch and shrink.  The fact that there are more key frames, means that we need a tool for the task, as it would be too complicated to manually edit each key frame individually.

I don't agree that adjustment layers don't have 'speed', especially when the animation of effects is involved. The distance between key frames is in fact the speed by which the effect is applied.  Therefore, the need to adjust this speed is as important as being able to adjust the speed of a video clip in Premiere.  The purpose of an adjustment layer is not always static and they do not behave the same as stills images, they have a very different purpose.

I also don't agree that nesting is the better approach, as in some situations it's not possible to accomplish this specific task using nesting... for example, in the event that I would like to only change the speed of the animation of the effect on an adjustment layer, but not change the speed of the actual video clips which are being affected underneath. In such a situation, nesting will not work.

The rate stretch tool appears to be the simplest approach for adjusting the speed of an animation of an effect on an adjustment layer on the timeline.

The issue here, is the bug in Premiere, whereby the rate stretch tool tries to make it work, but it fails. The key frames are moved correctly, the sliders/values are animated on playback, but it simply doesn't work, it breaks.  The key frames and the animation of the effect values are completely ignored, despite them changing.  I have reported this to Adobe and hope that they will attend to the fix.

The best work around that I've found, is to create a (2nd) adjustment layer (which is shorter or longer) and then paste the attributes from the (1st) adjustment layer with 'scale attribute times' checked.  This allows for the stretching or shrinking of the key frames (withing an adjustment layer) proportionally, regardless of the video clips underneath.

In any case, thank you for your comments.


Ann was quite literally correct. Adjustment layers don't have a speed other than the media they are placed over. Currently, they're not built to have that characteristic. Which is why the feature-request is needed. This wouldn't be seen as a bug by the team as it is designed behavior.

It's a limitation that I'd rather not have, of course. Because, like you, I can see several situations where it would be nice to change a whole complex series of key-frames together rather than every. flippin'. one. separately.

Currently, again as Ann rightly notes, AE is the program with that capability.

Also, I'd love to be able to drop an A-L under a clip, and put a Lumetri or LUT Buddy on that ... and be able to stretch it for the length of a scene or project so it gets applied in processing after the clip, and any effects applied there. The only way to do that now is to apply an additional Lumetri or other effect to all clips desired, making sure that it is below all other effects in the ECP for every clip ... and while you can copy one across readily enough, changing every one's settings is a pain up the wazoo.

Again, that's not a capability that an A-L currently has. You can put it under your media, and apply an effect to it ... but nothing of it will show.

Neil

2 replies

Ann Bens
Community Expert
Ann BensCommunity Expert
Community Expert
July 2, 2017

I dont think its a good idea to use the rate stretch tool on an AL.

An AL does not have Speed only duration.

If you want the effect to move faster or slower, move the keyframes closer or futher apart. Extend the AL with the roll edit tool.

C
Chris WAleAuthor
Participant
July 2, 2017

Ann, thanks for your response, but sorry, I have to say that I didn't find your suggestion useful.  Firstly, I think it's a great idea to use the rate stretch tool on adjustment layers, as an easy way to speed up (squeeze) or slow down (stretch) the animation of effects.  The roll edit tool does not accomplish this task, it simply extends or reduces the length of the adjustment layer, it has no affect on the animation speed of the effect - which was the subject of my original post.

When there are multiple animation effects on an adjustment layer with multiple key frames for each effect, it's becomes very time consuming and problematic to edit the key frames directly - especially if there are velocity changes on the speed between key frames.

The rate stretch tool makes absolute sense for this purpose.  It works with video clips that have key frames, it should also work with adjustment layers the same.

Does anyone know of any other way to edit the key frames?... in the event that we have multiple key frames (example screenshot below) - to bring them closer together or push them further apart (proportionately)?  Without having to manually move each key frame in the sequence, which would be an enormously time consuming task.

Below is a screenshot of an example of what might be the situation with the animation of the effects in the effect panel time line key frames.  Again, I want to either squeeze the key frames closer together (proportionately) to speed up the animation of the effect.  Or I might want to stretch them out away from each other (proportionately) to slow down the animation of the effect.  If not the rate stretch tool, then how?

Any input would be much appreciated.

Ann Bens
Community Expert
Ann BensCommunity Expert
Community Expert
July 2, 2017

A video clip has speed and duration, an AL just has duration just like a still has.

With all those keyframe i would never use the rate strecht tool before nesting (just like Jason said).

If you want to strecht or shrink keyframes proportional use AE which will do just that for you.

jasontcox
jasontcox
Inspiring
July 2, 2017

The truth is, sometimes effects get a little wonky and don't behave perfectly when applied to Adjustment Layers, as useful as they are. I just went through your steps and confirmed it happened to me too, but that doesn't totally surprise me. It's worth filing a big report/feature request (hard to say which Adobe will consider it!) here: Feature Request/Bug Report Form - Adobe

For what it's worth, I found a workaround. Drop the clip and adjustment layer and place your keyframes where you want them. Then NEST the two clips together and use the Rate Stretch tool on the new nested clips. It works!

    C
    Chris WAleAuthor
    Participant
    July 2, 2017

    Thank you for testing this on your system. It puts my mind at ease, now that you've confirmed this is in fact a 'bug' associated with Adobe Premiere adjustment layers.  I have reported it to Adobe and we will wait for them to attend to it.

    Your workaround does work in the scenario that we stretch both the video clip and the adjustment layer animation effect simultaneously. In my project however, I need to stretch the adjustment layer (with animation effect key frames), but leave the video clip 'as is'.

    I have found an alternative workaround, as follows:

    1. Create a (2nd) new adjustment layer, and size accordingly: shorter or longer
    2. Copy attributes from the (1st) original adjustment layer and paste attributes into the (2nd) new adjustment layer. 
    3. Be sure to check the box: 'Scale attribute times' when pasting attributes
    4. This will insert the effects with animation effect key frames on the new adjustment layer - and it works!
    5. If the (2nd) adjustment layer is shorter, then the animation effect is faster (squeezed).
    6. If the (2nd) adjustment layer is longer, then the animation effect is now slower (stretched). T
    7. The video clip below the adjustment layer remains 'as is' unchanged.

    Regards

    Chris Wale

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