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r_0984
Participant
August 22, 2024
Answered

Best way to manage a 4K Production without slowdowns and crashes (multicam, proxy, intermediate)

  • August 22, 2024
  • 3 replies
  • 2813 views

Hi,

 

Premiere: 24.5 (downgrades to 24.1 at the moment)
Mac OS: Sonoma (latest version)
Systems: Mac Studio Ultra (2022)

 

I've been working with Premiere (and Productions) for a long time, but in the past couple of years I keep stumbling into issues when it comes to large projects. Specifically Production projects, holding terabytes worth of footage, all to be used by multiple editors to edit large sequences (40 minutes).

 

For example, one Production could house an 8 episode tv show, all shot in 4K or UHD. Besides 50 TB worth of camera footage, that also comes with action cam footage, proxies and other assets.

 

Some of our projects come with multicam, others don't. The ones that do, always give us a headache. When we start it always works out, but somehow they always manage to slow down or cause crashes. Whether it be from scrolling through a bunch of multicam cuts that sit next to each other on a timeline or from dragging some footage (or another edit) from one sequence (or project) to another. Some people online claim it might have to do with the audio routing within each multicam sequence, but that's worthless information if you're already halfway post. It's impossible to adjust every sequence. It makes it very frustrating when you don't know what the exact issue is that is causing Premiere to act like that. Especially when you're at episode 2 and you know you have 6 more ahead. It almost comes down to having your team prepared up front that Premiere might act weird and multiple crashes a day will be the standard.

 

So, because all information online (including on this forum) seem to go in all sorts of directions, I just wanted to try and see what advice you could give me in these two situations:

 

1. No multicam, 50 TB of 4K footage, several episodes, several editors

 

On our server, we split up every type of footage in their own (sub) folder. Based on type and also date.

 

Main container/codec would be MXF/MP4 (X-AVC I/Intra 100). With HD productions, Premiere deals fine with the original files, so we simply drag these files in media projects and drag them onto timelines in different sequence projects. We tend to keep every project as small as possible, so almost every aspect gets its own project.

 

When it comes to 4K UHD, to this moment we only went with ProRes proxies. Knowing when you toggle the proxy button, it will completely ignore the original camera footage. Or so I have been told.

 

2. Multicam, 50 TB of 4K footage, several episodes, several editors

 

Basically the same as the first situation, but now we have several cameras on set, resulting in a lot of extra multicam segments.

 

The 'original' way to go, is to select both video and audio clips from the project bin that form ONE multicam clip together, and to choose 'Create a multicam source sequence'. Which is kind of unworkable in our situation because of time and multiple workflows blending together.

What we do right now, is we use Tentacle Sync Studio to generate an XML that holds a sync for a full day. Both single cam or multicam.

 

Once imported in Premiere Productions, we replace every clip with the footage that already sits in our projects. 'As if' we build a day sync sequence ourselves by hand. Just to make sure we don't work with a sequence that was auto generated, preventing errors etc.

 

What we end up with, is a plain synced day sequence with several video and audio layers.

From here we create 'true' multicam sequences, empty them, make sure the settings are okay (multichannel, every audio channel panned left/right, start time, name) etc, and then fill these multicam sequences with small bits of clips. Just like you would going the 'original' way, but this works faster.

 

What we end up with from here is a v2 of the synced day sequence. All multicam video clips have now been smashed together in individual multicam sequences, which (when you open them) now also store all audio tracks.

 

Advice on the Original camera footage in combination with proxies

 

What workflow has worked best and most fluent in a similar situation for you? Did you use proxies, attached to 4K MXF files or did you create intermediate files first? So MXF to ProRes 422 HQ (for example) and to have proxies attached after.

 

Another thing I'm struggling with: should these intermediates be 4K or Full HD? When I'm talking about proxies I'm always talking about 25%.

 

I'm even thinking about only working with proxies and to reconnect everything back to the originals after all edits have been finished. But I'm reading that might cause problems.

 

On the other hand: If I use ProRes intermediates and I want to replace them in the end with the original camera footage, won't that also give me any problems? I guess I could finish post with the 422 HQ (they will work fine for grading), which would mean I don't need to conform back to the MXF files. 

 

Too many questions, but I hope you understand where I'm coming from. I want to prevent starting a new Production for a new project I'm about to start, which (again) will cause issues.

 

Thanks for any answers!

    This topic has been closed for replies.
    Correct answer PaulMurphy

    Long sequences with lots of cuts will always make your project laggy and unstable. I recommend splitting your sequences into 10-minute reels.

    A project file with 4 x 10-minute sequences will run much smoother and more reliably than a project with 1 x 40-minute sequence.


    You can quickly test this by taking a laggy sequence, setting a 10-minute in/out, and creating a subsequence with Sequence > Make Subsequence. Move this sequence to a new project in the Production.


    As well as this, try to keep your project files under 50 MB to ensure better performance.

    3 replies

    R Neil Haugen
    R Neil Haugen
    Legend
    August 23, 2024

    You don't mention having read through the best documentation on Premiere Pro in use that Adobe has every published ... the Long-Form guide to working in Productions, main author Jarle Leirpoll.

     

    That should be required reading for anyone, really, as it covers so many things that can cause hiccups. And it really explains Multicam use better than anywhere outside of Jarle's published book.

     

    I'm including several things, but the Longform guide, and Jarle's web page expansion, may be the best bit for you.

     

    Premiere Pro Productions Introduction

    Using Productions in Premiere Pro

    Adobe Long-form and Episodic Best Practices Guide 


    Jarle’s blog expansion of the pdf Multicam section: Premiere Pro Multicam

    Everyone's mileage always varies ...
      R
      r_0984Author
      Participant
      August 23, 2024

      Hi,

       

      Thank you all for your reactions. I will try to get back with a reply on Monday.

       

      Just one quick reply to @R Neil Haugen:

       

      I have read most documentation (and seen a lot of videos) on the topic of Productions in particular.

       

      Haven't seen Jarle's blog, which I will definitely dive into. Just one quick question, as I haven't had time yet to read it all: Am I reading it right you shouldn't copy or duplicate a multicam source sequence? Because that's all we did for a current project which is already ingested, organized and being edited with.

       

      I might be wrong, but I never knew one way to build a correct multicam clip is to simply create a new multichannel sequence for every few clips that act together (instead of creating them from the project bin). Almost as if copying or duplicating a multicam sequence causes issues with the ID numbers (or something like that). Similar to how nests will always be copied along when moving a sequence (with nest sequences) from one project to another.

       

      Thank you. 

      R Neil Haugen
      R Neil Haugen
      Legend
      August 23, 2024

      I'm not sure I follow exactly what you're talking about ... @Jarle Leirpoll if available would be the best source. Though numerous others around here are very good also!

      Everyone's mileage always varies ...
      P
      Community Expert
      PaulMurphyCommunity ExpertCorrect answer
      Community Expert
      August 23, 2024

      Long sequences with lots of cuts will always make your project laggy and unstable. I recommend splitting your sequences into 10-minute reels.

      A project file with 4 x 10-minute sequences will run much smoother and more reliably than a project with 1 x 40-minute sequence.


      You can quickly test this by taking a laggy sequence, setting a 10-minute in/out, and creating a subsequence with Sequence > Make Subsequence. Move this sequence to a new project in the Production.


      As well as this, try to keep your project files under 50 MB to ensure better performance.

        Ann Bens
        Community Expert
        Ann BensCommunity Expert
        Community Expert
        August 25, 2024

        Keeping project files under 50mb is not feasible, especially when Warp Stabilizer is heavily used (especially having hand held footage and Prores are not small files either).

          J
          Jarle Leirpoll
          Legend
          August 25, 2024

          This is exactly why I do my stabilization in a separate project, and export a ProRes file that I keep in my edit project.

            T
            Community Expert
            T - SalCommunity Expert
            Community Expert
            August 22, 2024

            Hello, 

            •  

            Handling large-scale projects in Adobe Premiere Pro, especially with multi-camera setups and terabytes of footage, can indeed be challenging. Here’s a breakdown of strategies to address your issues and optimize your workflow:

            1. No Multicam, 50 TB of 4K Footage, Several Episodes, Several Editors

            Current Workflow:

            • Splitting footage by type and date
            • Using ProRes proxies

            Recommendations:

            • Proxies: Continue using ProRes proxies for smoother editing. They’re easier for Premiere to handle compared to 4K native files. To address concerns about proxies ignoring original footage, make sure that your proxy workflow is correctly set up:

              • Create proxies at a resolution that balances quality and performance—usually Full HD or even lower is sufficient.
              • Ensure that when you toggle the proxy button, it’s correctly linking to the proxies and not affecting the original files.

            • Intermediate Files: If you’re considering working with intermediate files like ProRes 422 HQ, you could set up a workflow where you:

              • Transcode your 4K footage to ProRes 422 HQ as intermediates.
              • Use these intermediates for editing and create proxies if necessary for performance improvements.
              • This can simplify the workflow and avoid reconnect issues later since you’ll have fewer original files to deal with.

            • Project Management: For managing multiple episodes and several editors:

              • Use Premiere’s Productions to manage different projects and sequences.
              • Ensure each editor has access to the necessary media and projects to avoid conflicts.
              • Consider using a centralized asset management system or a media asset manager (MAM) if not already doing so.

            2. Multicam, 50 TB of 4K Footage, Several Episodes, Several Editors

            Current Workflow:

            • Syncing footage with Tentacle Sync Studio and creating multicam sequences manually

            Have you tried:

            • PluralEyes is highly recommended for its automation and accuracy in handling complex syncing tasks across multiple sources.
            • Adobe Premiere Pro’s Built-In Sync Options are convenient for smaller or simpler projects, providing integrated syncing tools.
            • Syncaila offers advanced synchronization capabilities with detailed audio analysis, ideal for professional and complex setups.
            • Sound Devices SyncX provides reliable timecode-based syncing and is suitable for projects needing precise timecode alignment.

            Recommendations:

            • Multicam Workflow: Your current approach of using XML syncs and creating multicam sequences is sound, but it can be streamlined:

              • Automate parts of the process where possible. Look into scripting or plugins that might automate multicam creation and syncing.
              • Test different methods of syncing and multicam creation to identify if one approach consistently performs better.

            • Multicam Performance: Multicam sequences can be resource-intensive. To mitigate performance issues:

              • Use the “Render and Replace” feature on multicam sequences to ease playback and editing.
              • Consider pre-rendering or proxying multicam sequences separately if you encounter performance bottlenecks.

            Advice on Intermediate Files and Proxies

            • Proxies vs. Intermediates:

              • Proxies are generally recommended for editing due to their lower resolution and reduced strain on your system. They’re particularly useful for large projects with high-resolution footage.
              • Intermediates like ProRes 422 HQ can be used if you need higher quality for intermediate edits but are less efficient in terms of file size compared to proxies.

            • Resolution of Intermediates:

              • For editing, Full HD intermediates should suffice, but if you need to retain more detail, 4K intermediates can be used. The choice depends on your hardware capabilities and the level of detail required for editing.

            • Reconnecting Files:

              • Whether working with proxies or intermediates, ensure that your workflow includes a robust method for reconnecting to the original files. Premiere’s media management tools can help, but thorough planning is crucial.

            Additional Tips:

            • System Resources: Given your hardware (Mac Studio Ultra), ensure your system has sufficient RAM and storage for handling large projects and rendering tasks.

            • Version Compatibility: Keep Premiere Pro and macOS updated, but be cautious with major updates. Sometimes, new versions can introduce bugs or performance issues.

            • Backup and Archival: Regularly back up your projects and media to avoid data loss and manage storage effectively.

            T-Sal
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