Captions

[Neckebba]

We would like the possibility to export .STL files from our subtitels. (you can but only partially now)

Problem is  : when you put a caption track and say it is a subtitel. All is ok we can make our own company Subtitel style, size, shadow and all. We see this perfect on adobe premiere screen. Now when we export we want video and a sidecar file . But that sidecar file should be .STL because we are in EBU broadcast . And all our systems demand an .STL file

But on export we not have that option, we only can use .SRT

When we change the caption track to EBU , we get the export as an .STL file.

But the problem is When you put the caption track on EBU, we are not able to make our own Caption style and we have no visual how the captions will look on the screen. So for a director, editor is hard to know how to balance the text (1 /2 lines) on screen. 

We like to ask a feature request if this could be possible . SO when putted on subtitel we can export as an stl or add the possibility of more change on the EBU channel. (size, font, borders, shadow) 

[Stan Jones]

What specific PR version are you using? The latest is 22.1.2.

I am surprised, because I don't recall anyone mentioning this, and I had not  noticed it: version 22.0 (and newer, including the latest Beta 22.2.0 build 103) NO LONGER allow export of STL export from a Subtitles track. And since a) only the Subtitles type caption track allows more precise styling and b) PR SRT export will only carry font color styling info, there is no longer a workaround to get PR styling info out of PR to convert file types for such platforms as Vimeo and Youtube.

The help/guide was last updated 7/27/21, before the release of PR 2022. It still says that export of stl is allowed from a Subtitle track.

I would conclude that the lack of stl export from a subtitle track is a bug, since it is unthinkable to me that robust styles cannot be exported at all.

I will inquire further in the Beta forum. I hope I am missing something....

Curious: one of the responses may be that broadcast closed captions are typically limited in styles. So I understand, what is an example of a style that will show in EBU broadcast, that is not allowed in the PR EBU style settings and/or not exported by the PR EBU/STL export?

Stan

[Neckebba]

Hello,

Turns out this was never intended. So it was a "bug". What is fixed for a good reason (no idea what reason)

So we are back down. Captions for us broadcasters does not do what we need.

We need to have the correct subtitels for burn in (and visual for line breaks and so) and .stl sidecar file on same moment. "Burned in" to export directly for social stuff and .stl for the online broadcast playout.

Switching form Subtitle track style to EBU and back not solves it really. 

[Stan Jones]

Did you get staff confirmation it is a bug? I filed one in the Beta forum, but there are no reponses yet. I hope this is returned to its previous functionality.

I'd like to understand your workflow better.

I assume that the burn in itself works okay: subtitle track, styled as per your company style, burned in.

For broadcast, you are not embedding, but exporting STL from EBU caption track.The styles available are limited, but I assume that STL exported from this track keeps the styling you try.

From PR, when this previously worked correctly, you exported STL from a Subtitle Caption Track (the old "Open Captions"), correct? Did the appearance of those old captions when broadcast carry all the styling information? Or are there limits imposed by the EBU system?

What is available to you  now is to have a second caption track, EBU type, and use the limited style available there to get as close as you can.

You say, "We need to have the correct subtitles ... and .stl sidecar file on same moment. .... Switching from Subtitle track style to EBU and back not solves it really." Are you talking about being able to see both streams while editing in PR? Or in playback after export?

Stan

[Neckebba]

Hey Stan,

Our subtitel workflow at the moment is a bit primitive due to fact we hoped to push it a step forward with Adobe. So we not really went into searching other software.

We use "Belle Nuit", who export Tiff (and an xml) we put into premiere and we burn in the captions. For archive we then export a second video with no captions. Out of belle nuit we export also an .STL we attach in our PAM/MAM system. Arvato does not support .srt files, so we need .stl to use our MAM/PAM system. And also for archive is now programd to pick up the .stl files.

We use this in the post production, the News and social media environement.

This morning i had a bit same idea as you. Two subtiteltracks. (Make one then copy over to next one). Seem pretty ok and me i have no issues with that BUT.. yes there is a BUT.

The chance in mistakes is enormous. We talking of a big broadcaster and loads people doing stuff (in total we talk about 300-400 potential editors for post, news, social, radio ) are not skilled editors. So thats one: knowledge and skills. Second there is somethimes big  time pressure. Like if you worked in subtitle track, then copy over to EBU subtitle track and then they discover last minut a typo. you need to keep in mind to edit both of them.(also later when you reuse, see that the typo is fixed in stl and burned in)  And then you have loads people who are a bit "robots" in there repetetive jobs and are alergic to change.. (never underestimate that part). Even if it is 2-3 clicks extra, it is too much for them. 

It is staff confirmation : that possibility was a "bug". Not got explenation yet why and how, but its been fixed for a good reason. (we asked to unfix it :-). )

If we use Subtitle, we have the VRT font, shadow, outline, size and so on  ... then we can make it perfect like subtiteling by any other machine. And how it wil appear on the TV of people at home.

So subtitel works, ideal to put in line breaks.

When we put on EBU style we not have enough options to come close to the desired subtitle. 

But bruned in is s"econd part" of the solution/problem. The export with sidecar file is very  important, means we need to export one version of the video and subtitels will follow arround the system. We have hardware to get end of chain the video and stl together to play out on antenna.  .. So normally we will or want to work with video and a sidecar stl file. Burned in is when we need to have emergency procedure to get that item on live playout (when it is edited too late or information is important to re-edit or when we have an technical issue). So thats why we need both possibilities always at hand. (this is indeed mainly NEWS) 

Do you getting a bot the idea how we work.. (this is the simple part on Adobe side, we got live subtiteling , we got subtiteling in delay. So there is much more to do 🙂  )

[Stan Jones]

Thanks for the response! I appreciate the education.

I laughed out loud to this part. How true!

      > And then you have loads people who are a bit "robots" in there repetetive jobs and are alergic to change.. (never

         underestimate that part). Even if it is 2-3 clicks extra, it is too much for them.

Stan