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Known Participant
December 15, 2021
Question

capturing analog video

  • December 15, 2021
  • 6 replies
  • 8529 views
 

hello, after years of procrastination I am finally and currently digitizing old 8mm video tapes and old vcr tapes using an elgato "video video capture" device. (by the way, not interested in sending the tapes to a transfer house) If i want to divide the finsihed product into different parts what is the best way of doing that without losing the already mediocre standard definition quality. Is it better to edit it  through PP and then export or is there any software recomendations that will cut the clip in parts without reencdoing which i assume would degrade the quality even more? Thanks for any suggestions

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6 replies

Inspiring
January 3, 2022

Can you post your results? Perhaps your method will be better then mine. I do like the fact that Premiere Pro can make use of the Firewire DV converts. I find that helpful but others may not. 

Jeff Bellune
Legend
January 3, 2022

I used Topaz's Dione Interlaced TV Model to take raw 720x480 DV footage of a rec league soccer game and turn it into 1920x1080 HD 60 fps footage. The 60 fps footage has the soap opera effect, but that is what I want from sports/activity video. Here are two screenshots. The original is scaled up in Quicktime Player to match the frame size of the HD converted video.

The upconversion process (including doubling the frame rate) ran between 0.13 sec/frame and 0.21 sec/frame on my MacBook Pro.

Stan Jones
Community Expert
Community Expert
January 3, 2022

Jeff, that is an option in the Video Enhance AI product? (About $150 currently?)

 

Impressive.

 

Stan

 

Christian.Z
Community Expert
Community Expert
December 30, 2021

Check the bitrate of the digitized files, try to be a tad higher on the export settings

chrisw44157881
Inspiring
December 29, 2021

Unless the elgato hardware explicitly says it supports 10 bit, you would have to assume its only h.264 8 bit. Exporting to a 10 bit codec would be a waste of space.

For ease of use, if premiere could natively import the h.264 files, you'd have to export out a lossless codec at full 4:4:4 RGB at 8 bit which would make large file sizes or try a high datarate 4:2:2 codec at slight quality loss. If you can edit and then export directly to dvd, that's another option as well. I'm a stickler for 0% loss of quality, even if I can't see it, my computer does, expecially when its trying to compress down to DVD-mpeg2, I want every last gigawatt of quality I can get. If you need offline clips stored losslessly, two codecs I like are quicktime png video and huffyuv video both full 4:4:4 RGB at 8 bit. or Png/Tiff image sequences with lzw lossless compression enabled.

 

As for the capturing at interlaced, that doesn't really make any sense for film. Hopefully, the capturing device is storing the fields in NTSC encoding as progressive fields, which means you don't need to deinterlace as both fields are captured at the same moment in time and thus frame independment and can simply be treated as a whole frame in time. (since deinterlacing would throw away half your resolution) If you had to deinterlace, use topaz as adobe just blends the fields. or compare with qtgmc deinterlacing but that works at YUY2(which may still be better)

 

If you could work the files entirely inside shutter encoder, you might be able to clip them without re-encoding. This would depend on if they were natively supported for lossless clipping.

 

As a final note, I would never capture anything analog into an interframe codec. interframe codecs cannot handle rapid motion and may create tearing artifacts. I'd only capture with intraframe 'I' frames.

Inspiring
December 29, 2021

Could anyone please post a sample of their method in action? I would like to see a sample of VHS upscaled by 80%. 

Warren Heaton
Community Expert
Community Expert
December 29, 2021

The Elgato Video Capture device yields 640-by-480 progressive H264 at 29.97 fps.  Video Enhance AI will likely improve the picture quality a little bit.

 

There's a free trail of Topaz Labs Video Enhance AI.

 

The host system must meet the system requirements and it's very important to know that high-quality upconversion, even with H264 source, is very, very slow.

Warren Heaton
Community Expert
Community Expert
December 28, 2021

The Elgato USB2 Video Capture device is pretty good, but it's really just meant for capturing the tape, trimming the head and the tail, and then exporting to MP4 (as I'm sure you've noticed).  It would be really great if Elgato added an Extract option for removing segments within the capture before exporting it to a stand alone MP4 file.  It's also important to note that the Elgato software de-interlaces the footage and crops for overscan resulting in a 480p29.97 clip.

 

You can import the captures that you've exported from Elgato directly into a Premiere Pro project.  Select one of the MP4s in the Project tab and then right-click to choose New Sequence from Clip.  Rename the resulting Sequence with a descriptive name and edit the clips as you'd like.  Repeat as needed for as many Sequences as needed.

 

When you're ready to export the Sequence, choose File > Export > Media.  In the Premiere Pro Export dialog box, you have a few options.  Setting the Format to H264 and the Preset to Match Source - High Bit Rate is probably the easiest, but you could use the Match Source - Adaptive High Bit Rate preset for a smaller file or any of the presets with "SD 480" in the name (but not "SD 480 Wide").  If you really want to keep the file size small, you could use HEVC H265 for a more efficient but less compatible file (that is, the file will be smaller but it'll only play on devices that support H265).

 

As far as quality goes, you are taking a H264 compression generation hit.  That is what it is unless you reacapture your Regular 8 tapes and VHS tapes with a higher end video capture device.  If you decide to take that route, look into a capture device that allows you to capture SD via S-Video/RCA to Apple ProRes422 LT.  I really like Blackmagic Design's products (https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/intensitypro4k) - just be sure to use their included Media Express software for the SD ProRes captures.  If you happen to have access to a Digital8 camcorder with DV pass-through, that's probably your best bet for recapturing the tapes via Premiere Pro's DV capture; however you'll need to have FireWire or Thunderbolt with the right adapters to FireWire.  If you go the route of recapturing your tapes to a higher end format, the Premiere Pro part is more or less the same:  Import the captured clips, right-click and choose New Sequence from Clip, etc., etc.

 

 

Inspiring
December 29, 2021

The Blackmagic Design products require a TBC.  My video demonstrates this and that is why I cannot recommend any of the Intensity Products from Blackmagic Design. Some VCRs will have a built in TBC but most will not. 

Warren Heaton
Community Expert
Community Expert
December 29, 2021

Andy, that's not true.  Your video showing problems with Blackmagic Intensity capture does a great job of showing how to incorrctly use the Intensity product line with Premiere Pro.

Peru Bob
Community Expert
Community Expert
December 16, 2021
Jeff Bellune
Legend
December 16, 2021

Also look at Lossless Cut

Inspiring
December 16, 2021

From what I see online the Elgato devices capture H.264 at 1.4 Mbits 640x480 or 640x360 resolution ...

so you are starting with a fairly low datarate and a resolution below standard SD - which is 720x486 (or 720x576 PAL).

So, yes I would suggest you edit your clips to what you want in Premiere Pro but make sure you use a higher datarate when exporting. You could export to (for example) 'Prores' to maintain the initially encoded quality. But this will create much larger file sizes and has limitations that may be an issue for you.

I think in your case you probably should export using H.264 at high quality. 

Encoding to H.264 will give you MP4 video clips that everyone can easily view, share, upload to YouTube etc.

(whereas Prores is not going to be a file you can easily share).

 

One of the reasons to go with higher datarates for you exports is; Stanadard Definition analogue formats like 8mm/VHS have a lot of video noise. And the cameras of that era were also noisy. Video noise compressed to lower datrates will look worse.

 

All that said - experiment!. Digitise your footage and test various export settings from Premiere Pro.

If you want to spend some money, there are some video noise reduction plugins for Premiere Pro that may improve the look of your footage.

 

Another option is the excellent Topaz Video Enhance AI application. It's a standalone app that can upres footage, denoise video and remove interlacing. It can also do 'in' & 'out' simple edits.

Known Participant
January 1, 2022

Thanks Im still working on learning how to use the best software for capturing and processing from my elgato before I put it in PP.  I  first tried virtualDub and then I tried virtualdub2. Its a learning curve for me but I am getting some more help from the  AVS forum. I wanted to tell you that  after hours of trying to experiment with the above mentioned ( and sometinmes buggy) software and feeling  burnt out I did download a trial version of Topaz Enhance AI. I followed their in app recomendations for presets for analog and I processed a 17 minute video that I had captured with elgato (into avi then handbrake into mp4). The end result was indeed a nicer sharper video clip but much to my surprize it literally took over 5 hours to process a 17 minute video. Im sure im not understanding the potential of this AI but what I experienced is totally impractical so at this  point thats not something I would use. A 2 hour clip would take days. Im going to continue  to experiment until I feel comfortable with a nice workflow.  Thanks

Inspiring
January 3, 2022

To be more precise I have 8mm and Hi8mm video tapes from 20 years ago. They were originally created on a sharp ViewCam model number VL-AH15OU  I still have the camera and recently tuned up. There is one audio/video cable. One end plugs into the a/v cable port of the camera and the other end is one mono audio and one video composite (or RCA?) cable --one yellow and one white. The 2 cable ends plug into my elgato capture device. I have no s-video port on camera. Its analog and the device captures the footage and processes into MP4. And thats it. Ive been experimenting using different software (from Elgato's) like VD and VD2 thinkiing I would have more options with varying compression codecs and deintelacing option to get rid of combing effects on the edges. The other software has been very buggy and I dont have the expertize to know what Im doing to experiment. Im starting to think that I should just be happy with the elgato software because its stable. My question to you is how can a Firewire DV convertor be applicable in my situation? Thanks. 


How would a Firewire DV converter help you out? Did you watch my video?

You connect the audio and video cables form the Hi-8 camera to the DV converter. You then connect the Firewire cable from the DV converter to the PC. It is that simple. The video files will be in the DV-25 codec. Interlaced is what you want. Leave it as interlaced video in a 1080i sequence if you want to create a Blu-ray disk. If you want to post on social media you can use a 1080P sequence at 60 FPS. It is that simple. The video below might be worth watching. I don't recommend using cheap USB video capture cards for a reason. You can buy the Firewie DV converters used on ebay. It will be the easiest method when using Premiere Pro, FCPX and iMovie. 

On a side note Warren recomended using a Digital-8 camera for pass through. You can use most Firewire based cameras that way. It will have the exact same result as using a Firewire DV converter. I don't recommend the Blackmagic Products because the ones I tested needed a TBC. Warren stated the Blackmagic Desing Intensity Pro 4K can capture old VHS tapes without a TBC. I would asks the folks at Blackmagic Desing if that is correct before buying it. Having said that some camcorders and VCRs have a TBC built in. Yours might. If it does the Blackmagic Products will work. You can buy a used Intenisty Shuttle on ebay for pretty cheap. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsDTDkaqmpI