Color space work flow questions

Community Beginner ,
May 28, 2022 May 28, 2022

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I am using a Fujifilm XT3 mirrorles camera.

using 4k DCI 

F-LOG (Fujifilm Log)

using  the Atomos Ninja V

Codec Prores HQ 422

I need to understand the correct colorspace workflow

for the color space should I be using Rec 709?

Or if I use Rec 2100 HLG (Does this give Me wider gaumat of colors to work with? Or is it best practice to work with Rec 709?

 

other work flow

if I shoot HLG in the fujifilm camera and use the Ninja V

4k DCI

Prores HQ 422

my colorspace would be Rec 2100 HLG nad not rec 709, I think?

 

also what about Nikon z6 prores raw workflow?

Also what about black magic pocket 4k raw workflow?

Please Help!

Thank you!

Mike

 

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Editing , Formats , User interface or workspaces

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Mentor ,
May 28, 2022 May 28, 2022

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xt3 has limited dynamic range so even F-log is going to perform just fine. it's easier to grade and expose than HLG as HLG is not a smooth curve like log. unless you have a rec. 2020 monitor, I doubt you will notice any color differences.

 

if you want to shoot HLG, just setup premiere to match it.  you usually choose your shooting for the end result, so the final playing device needs to either support HLG or you can convert to rec. 709 upon export.

https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-discussions/faq-how-to-fix-saturated-over-exposed-hlg-cl...

 

https://larryjordan.com/articles/new-hdr-workflow-in-adobe-premiere-pro/

 

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Community Beginner ,
May 29, 2022 May 29, 2022

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thank you!

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Community Expert ,
May 29, 2022 May 29, 2022

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Community Beginner ,
May 29, 2022 May 29, 2022

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Thank you

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Community Expert ,
May 28, 2022 May 28, 2022

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Very little reason to work in HDR at this point, as very few screens actually show it well if at all. So for now, Rec.709 is a better "normal" working process.

 

For all of those, I would suggest a straight Rec.709 workflow. Color management settings in the Modify/Interpret Footage section if needed, and for timeline color space and exports.

 

Neil

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Community Beginner ,
May 29, 2022 May 29, 2022

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so with nikon z6 ? using raw hq prores

I would use this below

Nikon  rec 2020/ N - Log  ?

Sequence colorspace rec 709 ?

also what about exporting?

 

 

How about fujifilm Log? 4k workflow 10bit hq prores 422 hq

 

Sequence setting Rec 709

F-Log I hear with fujifilm is a Rec 2020 but premire Properties says its a Rec 709.

also exporting?

Thanks for your help!

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Community Beginner ,
May 31, 2022 May 31, 2022

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Neil had a couple of questions again.

my xt3 out puts full Range and I use a ninja V recorder/ codec prores HQ.

if you out put to the ninja V at full Range, does that F-log become Rec2020?

 

second question , if you again shoot F-Log.

then go into the Ninja V settings and switch on Legal range, does that become rec 709 file with F-log? 

it seem when I shoot with legal range on it keeps it at Rec 709. As I check the files in properties in PR.

I think PR does not support rec2020 in color space. So I guess you have to work in rec 709.

Maybe I am wrong?

I guess final cut and resolve supports this?

 

thanks again for your help!

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Community Expert ,
May 31, 2022 May 31, 2022

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Recording a video file in full range doth make it problematic to work with in Rec.709, as you must then do a conversion to keep from crushing blacks and clipping whites. I've not seen any tests showing that you actually get any wider/greater data by recording in full for any SDR/Rec.709 work.

 

It's just the encoding to file is done a bit differently, same data. And properly setup displays map the data just fine either way.  But the 'full' bit, unless it's also RGB, screws up playback on most properly setup systems. As is it's set for any SDR/Rec.709 to display as "full", and fed any professionally encoded SDR/Rec.709 media, which is always encoded as 'limited', well ... you get mush.

 

"Full/legal" really isn't a "thing" with HDR media, as that is by nature not set for full/limited, so therefore, in reality is full.

 

Premiere might see the full and assume therefore it is meant to be HDR, I don't know. I haven't tested that because I never shoot worrying about setting full/legal. My kit just shoots what's appropriate for the format.

 

And their setup of the new color handling/management has a fair amount of ... intriguiging bits? ... that I've had the devil sussing out. Even with direct communications via email and at NAB with staffers. Kinda ... bothered, to be very polite in language ... with the lack of serious, hard, and detailed data they've put out.

 

Francis finally sent me some additional information and a link to a page they've got with what passes for the best details on their new system yet. I've posted both in several discussions here and in a distinct thread created for that a week ago.

 

But it's such a massive shift, and they've got nowhere near the full data on all parts and implications like say the Resolve manual. Which I pointed out to Francis in person at NAB in detail. He simply noted that he understood my frustrations, and would pass this up the chain and see what he could shake loose.

 

Ah well ... one can always hope.

 

Neil

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 01, 2022 Jun 01, 2022

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Thank you again 

so are we seeing rec 2020 for the Fuji F log on a PR timeline? On rec709 timeline?

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Community Expert ,
Jun 01, 2022 Jun 01, 2022

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Quite probably, if that's what you're getting on export.

 

Understand ... all HLG is log-encoded ... hybrid log gamma, right? Well, in reality, all camera-produced HDR formats are log-encoded.

 

But some log-encoded media is 'expected" by the user to be SDR, or shall we say, Rec.709. And Premiere's new-fangled color system, completely rebuilt since the 2021 builds, gets ... confused I suppose ... about that at times.

 

Especially with Sony, Fuji, and some  Canon log media.

 

Go the the clips in the bin, check their properties for the color space. Which Premiere probably shows as HLG. Although some clips, Premiere doesn't show a color space for, but treats as if HLG.

 

Neil

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 01, 2022 Jun 01, 2022

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When I import prores hq 422

i right click on the file and go into property's and it say the clip is a Rec 709. When I shot it in fujifilms F-Log profile.

does not say HLG.

it confuses me! Lol

where HLG showing or rec 2020?

PR can be very confusing with there color space reading of the video file.

thanks Neil for all your help...

I wish it was easy, like photography.

you shoot in camera color space Adobe 1998 and set photoshop to color working space to Adobe 1998.

now you see all the colors of the workspace

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Community Expert ,
Jun 01, 2022 Jun 01, 2022

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If Premiere is showing this as Rec.709 in properties, but treating it like HLG on the sequence .... yea, that's a buggy behavior.

 

Neil

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Community Beginner ,
Jun 02, 2022 Jun 02, 2022

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Neil, I found out from Adobe.

that PR does not support some mirrorless cameras Natively but they will hopefully add in the near future.

as of now you can only work with fujifilm F-LOG in REC 709 colorspace. 
so you can't work in REC 2020.

because this camera is not supported natively.

there for the video file defaults to REC 709.

hope they support the camera soon

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Community Expert ,
Jun 02, 2022 Jun 02, 2022

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Good to know you got some answers.

 

Neil

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