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Niklaz32974519oo3f
Inspiring
March 15, 2024
Question

Colors bleached out when using QuickTime after Export

  • March 15, 2024
  • 2 replies
  • 4078 views

Hi,

Would appreciate some help here!

Does anyone know why colors of my exported Premiere Pro video - are bleached out when using QuickTime, but not when opening the video using VLC Player. In VLC, the colors are saturated correct. As in preview window in Premiere Pro.

This video is about to be published online and I am worried that the webplayer wont support the "correct" colors, as seems to be the issue with QuickTime (?)

I attach an image to show you the difference in preview mode (in Pr) and when opened in QT Player. Is there anything I can do to make the colors more correct (in terms of premiere pro preview quality) in QuickTime?

As I said, when opening the exported video in VLC, all look good. 

Br
Niklaz

    2 replies

    R Neil Haugen
    R Neil Haugen
    Legend
    March 15, 2024

    I work for/with/teach pro colorists. I've been heavily schooled in all this CM stuff for years, and have taught the CM of both Premiere and Resolve vis a vis this ... issue. (Which by the way infuriates most of my colorist buds, nearly all Mac geeks of course ... they're ticked at Apple.)

     

    You can say "Thank you!" to Apple for this.

     

    The full broadcast standards for Rec.709/SDR video have been set and used for YEARS. But Apple for some reason decided to use the camera transform, roughly gamma 1.96, as the display transform for displaying the image on the monitor.

     

    Rather than the specified gamma 2.4.

     

    And that's the problem. Most Macs will display Rec.709 video with gamma 1.96, and in some testing I've read recently, don't properly remap the hues of Rec.709's sRGB space into the P3 color space of the Retina monitors. So you get both the lighter look, and the desaturation combined. Oh ... joy.

     

    But ... some newer Macs have "reference" modes, and for those that do, if they use them, the HDTV setting uses the full-on B-cast specs, so those Mac users get a gamma 2.4 display transform. As do nearly all other systems whether b-cast suites, Android, or PCs.

     

    So that's the 'thing' ... you're seeing a different "presentation" of the image from the normal standard. And there's three options you've got, depending on your choices, I'll list those below.

     

    First though, get your basic CM in best shape.

     

    Go to the Color Workspace, Lumetri panel, Settings tab, where all the CM settings now "live".

     

    - Set Display Color Management on, and for Macs, Extended range also.

    - Auto detect log and auto tonemapping, both ON ... and they are interactive.

    - Set your sequence to the CM you want to export to.

     

    That will get you started. Now, for your choices ... in the viewer gamma options:

     

    1) gamma 1.96/QuickTime ... this option sets the Premiere Program monitor to similar to the Mac without reference modes.

     

    Implications: What you see inside Premiere and outside in QuickTime player, Chrome and Safari, will be fairly close. What is shown in VLC and Firefox will be darker/more saturated. Many Mac users without reference modes will see a similar image.

     

    But ... Macs with reference modes, and nearly all other viewers, whether PC, Android, or broadcast specced setup, will see the darker 'view' of the file.

     

    2) gamma 2.2/web ... this will be a bit darker within Premiere than outside on a Mac without ref modes. Not quite as dark as 2.4.

     

    Implications: This will help create a file somewhat in between 1.96 and 2.4, seen by some as sort of a compromise setting. While you may see comments that "this is what 'the web' uses for video anyway' that is actually incorrect ... 'web' use of gamma 2.2 is for sRGB still images, not video. 

     

    The image will be a bit darker on most non-Mac systems, a bit lighter on most Mac systems without ref modes.

     

    3) gamma 2.4/broadcast ... this is what nearly all my colorist acquaintances use for all Rec.709. No professionally distributed Rec.709 media is graded for 2.2 or 1.96 by the way ... so everything professionally produced, then seen on a Mac, was graded under a 2.4 setting.

     

    Implications: the image view will be 'normal' on all b-cast spec systems, most PCs and Android, and Macs with reference modes. It will be a bit light and low saturated on Macs without reference modes.

     

    And will relatively match all professionally produced media on any screen. Which is why pro colorists do it this way.

    Everyone's mileage always varies ...
      N
      Niklaz32974519oo3fAuthor
      Inspiring
      March 15, 2024

      Thank you so much Haugen!!!

      But... I'm still not sure which gamma to use in Premiere Pro. The video exported is about to be published at the clients website, thats the main purpose of this video. I think the developer will use WordPress and plug-in showing a very similiar color quality to what you see when using QuickTime, a few % of bleached out colors. I also think that most of the clients own customers probability uses Chrome or/and Safari.

      You also say "But ... Macs with reference modes, and nearly all other viewers, whether PC, Android, or broadcast specced setup, will see the darker 'view' of the file."

      - What do you mean by reference mode? 

       

      At first, I thought your first option gamma 1.96/QuickTime might be the best one to choose when editing and exporting this video. But you also said, all customer on a PC with see a darker image with this option? Is that correct? Thats sounds bad.

      What would you suggest in this specific case?

      Br,
      Niklaz 

      R Neil Haugen
      R Neil Haugen
      Legend
      March 15, 2024

      Some newer Macs have options for display settings called Reference modes. And the HDTV option in those, is full-on broadcast specs. Including the gamma 2.4 display transform rather than the 1.96 of the ColorSync normal "Rec.709" display.

       

      Most web things ... browsers and players ... will use sRGB and gamma 2.2 for still images, but though some think this means all images, most non-Mac web video players actually use proper gamma 2.4 for Rec.709 video files.

       

      So it's a muddled mess. One thing pro colorists are taught hard and early  ... once that file leaves your machine, you have no control whatsoever.

       

      NO ONE ... will ever see exactly what you see on your screen. The best you can hope for is something sorta close. So the best you can do is grade to The Standard. And then, on every screen out there, your media will in relative terms look similar to all other professionally produced media on that screen.

       

      You can't even totally match two identical monitors fed the same signal in the same room.

       

      So most pros simply grade Rec.709/SDR in gamma 2.4. But at times, for web only use with clients requesting it, they'll do the gamma 2.2 in-between thing.

       

      And that is also your choice, and your client's. What a delightful gift from Apple ... 😉

      Everyone's mileage always varies ...
        N
        Niklaz32974519oo3fAuthor
        Inspiring
        March 15, 2024

        I found this thread: 

        https://www.reddit.com/r/editors/comments/10c4bca/vlc_color_vs_quicktime_color_for_delivery/#:~:text=VLC%20always%20appears%20more%20saturated,the%20Quicktime%20colors%20are%20used

        But i am not sure what this all mean? I cannot export this video from Premiere Pro and get the colors right in QuickTime?

        N
        Niklaz32974519oo3fAuthor
        Inspiring
        March 15, 2024

        That seems to be the case anyway... Gamma problems using Premiere Pro and Quick Time as Media Player:
        https://www.reddit.com/r/editors/comments/8mjqqp/quicktime_player_gamma_shift_premiere_export/

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