Correcting mixed cadence

[David Bynum]

I have my film at the aggregators , it keeps getting rejected because of mixed cadence 4:1 & 1:1.  I'm not sure where the problem occurred. Any suggestions on how to repair the problem?

[Mike Dziennik]

What frame rate are your sources and what is your delivery frame rate? Are your sources interlaced/progressive and does it match your delivery specs? Im not exactly sure what you/they mean by 4:1 & 1:1. Need more info.

[David Bynum]

Ok sorry for the delay, I had to hear back from the aggregators. I'm still having the same problem. The film was shot at 23.976 progressive, it was edited in premiere pro. Exported in Pro Res 422,  29.97fps upper field first.

 Here is the email stating the problem;

The Delivery specs are:  

Apple Pro Res 422

29.97i

5.1 audio  

any help or suggestions are more than welcomed , I'm about at my wits end here.

[Michael Grenadier]

I think (but I'm pretty sure I'm correct - bwdik) that you should have edited in a sequence with the same timebase as your sources...  so that your sequence settings should have been 23.976 progressive (also known as 24p).  Then when you exported it to 29.97 the pulldown would have been added consistently.  With your current workflow, each time you drop a 24p clip into a 29.97 timeline, it's arbitrarily adding a different cadence.   Not sure if the export process is the ideal way to add pulldown for the best quality...  youo might want to do some googling.

If you have AfterEffects, you can test  your output file to see if it can remove pulldown.  You do this with the "interpret footage dialog."  You may also be able to do this in Premiere, but I seem to remember having some issues with that.  

[Michael Grenadier]

and I think you can fix this by creating a new sequence at 23.976 fps and making your 29.97fps timeline active, select all, copy, and then pasting into your 23.976 sequence.  You'll need to check all your edits, but should be much quicker than redoing them...

[David Bynum]

Thank you for your response, we will follow back up when we find the correct fix and it’s out of QC.

[David Bynum]

Thank you for the response, we have several suggestions and are going to try until we find a fix. We will follow up when we do.

[David Bynum]

 You can fix this by creating a new sequence at 23.976 fps and making your 29.97fps timeline active, select all, copy, and then pasting into your 23.976 sequence.  You'll need to check all your edits, but should be much quicker than redoing them...

Or I can see if one of my editors in Ohio want to redo it. They we're with me when we fixed the cadence problem on my film. 

[Iyekoretin]

Thanks.  I will appreciate it. That will be helpfull.  

dele@delevideo.com

[Mike Dziennik]

As your footage is 23.98p and your delivery is 29.97i then you need to apply 3:2 pulldown. This has to be applied at the last stage so the cadence is consistent through the programme (if done correctly you can reverse the process, but only because it is consistent throughout). 

As mgrenadier suggested, you are probably best making a 23.98p timeline and using this as a master. You can then export at 29.97i and the cadence will be applied consistently. 3:2 pulldown is simply a matter of repeating fields so the quality should be the same regardless of which application is doing it (assuming it is a standard 3:2 pulldown: which Premiere will do...as opposed to some form of motion interpreted frame rate conversion...where different applications will have differing levels of quality.)

Again, as mgrenadier suggests, you can copy and paste your timeline, or you can simply change your existing sequence settings. Copy paste might be better because you can refer back to the original if anything goes wrong.

[David Bynum]

Thank you, we are going to try this next. I’ll follow back
Up and let you know how it works.
Sent from my iPhone
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[Moderator note: extraneous data removed.]

[David Bynum]

I heard back from the aggregators today. That was the correct fix for the mixed cadence issue. We copied the files & placed them on a 23.967 timeline and it adjust the frame sizes and we went through and checked all edits and one last inspection of everything else. 
we exported it in pro res 422 hq  29.97i.  Stereo. And that corrected our issues.  I can't thank you all for the knowledge and the fix to my problem. I'll come back and post when the film is released.

[Mike Dziennik]

Glad you got it sorted. 

[David Bynum]

Hello All, 

thank you for the mixed cadence fix, I've now encountered a new problem. Below is part of the email that failed QC because of dropped frames.

 does anyone have any ideas why using the settings described in post above I'm having this problem. 
Thanks in advance.

[R Neil Haugen]

One idea ... export in the same frame-rate as the sequence, re-import.

Then simply export that 'clip' to the 29.97i. Does this get it out correctly?

Neil

[chrisw44157881]

Double check all your footage is 23.976fps and there's no blank spots in the timeline.

Additionally any imported graphics may be wrong framerate. You may want to ask them if they want 2:3 pulldown  or 2:3:3:2 pulldown(one mixed frame in every 5 output frames, compared to 2:3 that produces 2 mixed frames, in every 5 output frames). AE can do custom pulldown types. If anyone has an alchemist, they can run it through to repair anything automatically. Also, setting upper field or lower field dominance in the render and sequence is important as well.

[David Bynum]

Here is the exact problem explained in the email.

***Updates for you this morning, the cadence issues are confirmed fixed however dropped frames have taken their place.

These instances are from the trailer, I’m still waiting for the full report from the feature:

01) -cadence fixed; dropped frames now present - 00:00:34 - 00:00:39 - missing frame of car present in previous fail not present

02) -cadence fixed; dropped frames now present - 00:01:13 - 00:01:20 - 4:1 cadence present in previous fail; missing frame not present


I think this might be something that the editing software introduces so I have hope it can be easily remedied.****

It was shot 23:976 & edited on 23:976 timeline to fix the cadence problem. Now dropped frames, I’m sure it’s export settings of frame rates. Any suggestions?

Does rendering upper field First, lower field first or progressive make a difference In missing frames?

Sent from my iPhone

[Moderator note: extraneous material removed. Please post forum issues only.]

[chrisw44157881]

field dominance will break any QC, guaranteed.

[Iyekoretin]

Hi Dave, regarding the 4:1 cadence issue and dropped frame, how did you end up soling them?  I have exactly the same problem right now with an aggregator. Please help.

Thanks,

Dele

[David Bynum]

The problem was the film was shot in two different fps rate. When editing make sure you set the frame rate to 29.97fps and edit the whole project in that rate. Unfortunately the only way to correct it is to rebuild the project on the proper timeline and fps rate. I tried every shortcut nothing worked. You have to redo on the proper timeline.

[Iyekoretin]

So, I start a new timeline with a setting of 29.97 fps and I think premiere ask me if I want to "keep current setting?




Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device

[David Bynum]

Yes the whole project must be done on a 29.97 timeline. When you start the new project make sure it's set on 29.97 and stays that way until you export. If your already with a aggregator I'm assuming they want it Pro Res 422 export. If not export it how ever they request it. 

[Iyekoretin]

Thanks. Yes. The aggregator wants it that way. I will work on that tomorrow.



Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device

[Iyekoretin]

It still failed.  Is there a way I can find someone to do this for a fee?  I am getting despirate.