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Default transitions not working or erratic

Community Beginner ,
Jan 02, 2017 Jan 02, 2017

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New to Prem Pro and using the CC trial.  All I am trying to do is clean & smooth some camcorder video.  One item is simply applying the default transition to a scene change.  I place a cut at the scene change, then Ctrl-D to apply the default transition (crossfade).  Most of the time this does not work.  (It works great in the FREE Windows Movie Maker, so I don't believe it is a rendering or hardware issue.)  What am I missing or doing wrong?  I simply want to smooth out some abrupt scene changes which would seem to be a no-brainer, yet it won't work consistently.

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

LEGEND , Jan 02, 2017 Jan 02, 2017

For a transition to work in PrPro, you need to give it "handles". A handle is some frames that aren't used in the clip, a half-second to a second, depending on the length of the transition, on BOTH clips being 'joined' by that transition.

Some of the amateur programs simply put them in by automatically 'grabbing' your clip and working in from your set end-points. As a professional program, PrPro won't 'guess' for you, but expect you to set your handles.

So ... typically one starts with a clip, cut

...

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LEGEND ,
Jan 02, 2017 Jan 02, 2017

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For a transition to work in PrPro, you need to give it "handles". A handle is some frames that aren't used in the clip, a half-second to a second, depending on the length of the transition, on BOTH clips being 'joined' by that transition.

Some of the amateur programs simply put them in by automatically 'grabbing' your clip and working in from your set end-points. As a professional program, PrPro won't 'guess' for you, but expect you to set your handles.

So ... typically one starts with a clip, cuts a bit off the beginning, cuts some off the back, and those bits that are cut off become the handles that PrPro uses for the transition so your set in and out points stay exactly as they are.

Neil

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 03, 2017 Jan 03, 2017

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Thanks Neil and Jim -- So, if I understand correctly, I must provide a few frames of "breathing room" either side of the transition, for Premiere to be able to create a crossfade?  I have much camcorder footage with abrupt scene changes that I don't necessarily want to trim video from... I just want to replace a scene change with a smooth transition.  Is there any way to "automate" this setting of handles in Premiere, or would I be better off using an app that does the handles automatically, such as Movie Maker?  As I've said, I am new to video editing and maybe my present needs favor simplicity over Premiere's laundry list of extra features.  It just seems like something as simple as smoothing a quick scene change should not require the extra steps of cutting frames from either side of the transition.

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LEGEND ,
Jan 03, 2017 Jan 03, 2017

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There's valid reasons that the required trimming in order to add a transition is not automatic - adding a transition would change the length of the program, and that could have unwanted consequences for the editor!

You say you don't want to trim the content, you just want a smooth transition. Well, if you want a 1-second transition, you must necessarily "trim" 15 frames from end of first clip and 15 frames from beginning of next clip, and this would allow for the 30-frame transition. You are not losing those frames - you will still see them during the transition. It's as if the clip ends are overlapped and you see both at once.

If two untrimmed clips are butted together, there are no overlapping frames with which to create any sort of transition. That is just a simple fact.

I'm sure there are editing programs that will let you "Auto-add transitions between every clip". But that is not editing. Premiere CC is a professional application, where the editor will make careful choices for each scene. If you want Automation, I'm sure there are free or cheap consumer programs to do just that.

Thanks

Jeff

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 03, 2017 Jan 03, 2017

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Thanks, Jeff -- However I disagree RE transitions changing the program length.  The "automatic" insertion of a transition should (IMHO, at least as a user option) use whatever frames necessary either side of the transition point, keeping the program length intact.

I've come to realize that PP is overkill for my current needs.  I don't want to "auto add transitions between EVERY clip, just those that I choose, and IMHO a software as sophisticated as PP ought to be able to do that with a click or two.  Seems it is "too seriously manual" for what I want to do, IE, I don't need such power and flexibility to work with home camcorder footage.

IMHO, changing how a scene transforms into the next scene is indeed "editing" though your point is taken... you needn't talk down to me (or anyone) with condescension.  Make no mistake, Mr. Man, I have been put in my place!  PP is for "pros"!  Good for you.

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LEGEND ,
Jan 03, 2017 Jan 03, 2017

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No condescension implied, sorry if it came across that way.

Regarding this statement: "The automatic insertion of a transition should use whatever frames necessary either side of the transition point, keeping the program length intact."  That statement is contradictory in itself.

You said you didn't want the clips trimmed. If that's the case, and they are all just butted together end to end - where are we getting the "whatever frames necessary" to create a transition? To do any kind of transition, frames from BOTH clips must be blended together in some way. If the clips are butted together with no handles (overlap), then no transition is possible between them since they do not overlap at all.

So, if one could press a button to automatically add a transition between two such clips, it would be necessary that the second clip be slid to the left to provide some overlap of previous clip to allow for a transition to be created. And thus the program length would be affected, and things would shift around and that can be a disaster for the editor when clips, graphics, music are already in place and carefully timed.

Jeff

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LEGEND ,
Jan 03, 2017 Jan 03, 2017

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The "automatic" insertion of a transition should use whatever frames necessary either side of the transition point, keeping the program length intact.

It does exactly that.  The problem you're seeing arises not because frames aren't there, but because of the content of those frames.

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LEGEND ,
Jan 03, 2017 Jan 03, 2017

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I've come to realize that PP is overkill for my current needs.

This issue will arise with every editor in existence.  It's the nature of video, and not something you can ignore.

If you want to edit video, lean how.  (Or hire someone who has.)  You will find yourself with unnecessary difficulty if you don't.

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 03, 2017 Jan 03, 2017

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I am in the process of "learning how"... and that's what brought me to this forum.

Since Movie Maker can take an abrupt transition where a "splice point" has been added (one click), then allow the choice of many different transitions "automatically" using frames either side, over, under, around & through the splice point... it effectively changes a hard edit to, perhaps, a crossfade, with no need to tell it where your "handles" are.  If this is adversely affecting something, I don't know what -- but yes, I am learning.  Jim, your bedside manner leaves a lot to be desired -- if you are weary of stupid questions from beginners, perhaps you should let others answer who may still remember when THEY first started out.  No one is "ignoring" anything, on the contrary, the exactness of the procedure is what's in question.  Maybe Premium Elements improves upon this, I've yet to try that software.  IMHO if PP "forces" the user to locate handles manually, that does not necessarily make it a better or more precise editor.  At the very least, Adobe could have simply provided an option to automate the process, letting us idiots use a quality software without always choosing-every-single-step manually.  A full featured program like PP should allow for optional shortcuts, without forcing the user to use some other software just to clean up camcorder footage.  Perhaps PP/Adobe takes it's product TOO seriously, as evidently do some experts.

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LEGEND ,
Jan 03, 2017 Jan 03, 2017

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I started in PrPro about five years ago, just before the "end" of CS6 and beginning of the first CC release. I'd had some background with Pr Elements (even to making video tutorials in it) and I found PrPro bewildering at first. And like you, didn't understand why it didn't do some of the "automatic" things that the prosumer movie-making programs do.

I also had a 35 year background as a portrait studio photographer/owner, besides having been a "hot" color & b/w printer as we ran our own lab and did specialty printing for other pros. So I did have a long-time pro experience in techniques, gear, and knowledge expectations.

What I found in the difference between Pro/prosumer video software was the same difference that existed between the full-pro level cameras (like my D3) versus the prosumer cameras: a ​lot​ of the 'standard' and default features/functions of the prosumer cameras are simply not there in the pro models, or if something like them is, it behaves very differently. A single-digit level Nikon camera (D2, D3, D4, D5) will have a ton of settings to "manually" control the features in use, and ​how​ they work, with a few auto-features in the manner that pros need ... but even the "auto" features are bewilderingly complex. Auto-focus ... a complete explanation of how to setup AF for what you need in X situation can take five to fifteen written pages to explain the settings you need, which one does exactly what, and how it interacts with the other settings. For a different type work, you need to change ... a ton of settings.

The prosumer cameras ... especially when 'down' to the thousand-series, like D5200 or so, have quite a number of mostly automated features that you can (if you take time) learn to go into the menus and make ​slight​ changes to, plus a few manual settings.

It's a completely different mind-set. It just is.

Take the transitions you're talking about ... what would have to happen to get the behavior you want, is you would edit the clips and place them on the sequence, apply a transition, which would then work by blending through say the last fifteen frames of the fist clip and first fifteen clips of second clip. Time-wise, it ​slips​ the first clip over say fifteen frames of the last clip. Shortening your sequence by half the length of the transition.

PrPro assumes when you cut a clip, you want the full "clip" to end or begin in a very specific time-place, and that when you cut a clip to go on a sequence, you're cutting a clip to the ​frame​ you want that clip to start ... and to end. Because that's how professional NLE's work. If you then want a cross-fade or dip to black/white or such, you will "naturally" have had the first part of the clip that you cut off, and the last part that you also cut off, for PrPro to use as "handles". It will then start into a clip those 15 frames or so before the end of the preceeding clip, and play the tail-handle of the preceeding clip 15 frames into the next clip. There's no difference in the timeline duration, or the location of any clip.

It's why an NLE like PrPro doesn't have a lot of the "features" that prosumer movie-makers do, for flippy transitions, auto-this & that. All sorts of things. At the pro level, you buy plugins & third party apps that are specialty tools for those things. It's how it's done. Colorists I know will have a couple thousand or more dollars invested in LUT, filter, and other "packs" of specialty effects. Many editors & special-effects people also have a number of specialty add-on packs they've purchased and use.

A full NLE is a huge, complicated and complex beast just to handle the 'major' functions that it does. It doesn't have a lot of the options that a prosumer movie-maker has, but ... it has capabilities those apps don't even dream of doing.

All this to say that I think a lot of what you have "felt" as condescension was just people who use this full NLE trying to explain the difference between a program ​like​ PrPro, and the prosumer apps.

Neil

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LEGEND ,
Jan 04, 2017 Jan 04, 2017

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I am in the process of "learning how"

But you're going about that process in reverse order.

First learn, then do.

Going in the proper sequence, you would not now be having this difficulty.  You'd know how it works and what to do to make it work.

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LEGEND ,
Jan 04, 2017 Jan 04, 2017

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Jim, your bedside manner leaves a lot to be desired

It is true I have a low tolerance for willful ignorance.  You may consider that a personality flaw.

But regardless of the personality of the messenger, one cannot deny the validity of the message.

If you do not learn how to do something before you actually try doing it, you will have unnecessary difficulty.

You can ignore the messenger and improve your lot, or ignore the message and keep having problems.  Reader's choice.

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 04, 2017 Jan 04, 2017

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If not to LEARN how to DO, what is purpose of this forum?

The only "unnecessary difficulty" I have had is experiencing what appears to be a bug when implementing a cross dissolve at a cut between two scenes.  The timeline shows the dissolve has been added, yet does not always play it back.  THAT, sir, is how this entire topic got started.

Anyone who finds an ordinary question "willful ignorance" has no place on this or any other forum.  IMHO.  Reader's choice indeed!  What a tool.

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LEGEND ,
Jan 04, 2017 Jan 04, 2017

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ajmich wrote:

I have had is experiencing what appears to be a bug when implementing a cross dissolve at a cut between two scenes. The timeline shows the dissolve has been added, yet does not always play it back.

No where in your first post do you describe playback of an applied effect as your problem:

ajmich wrote:

New to Prem Pro and using the CC trial.  All I am trying to do is clean & smooth some camcorder video.  One item is simply applying the default transition to a scene change.  I place a cut at the scene change, then Ctrl-D to apply the default transition (crossfade).  Most of the time this does not work.  (It works great in the FREE Windows Movie Maker, so I don't believe it is a rendering or hardware issue.)  What am I missing or doing wrong?  I simply want to smooth out some abrupt scene changes which would seem to be a no-brainer, yet it won't work consistently.

A problem with playing back an applied effect is very different from the lack of ability to apply the effect, which is what your first post seemed (to me, and apparently to others) to be about.

Problems with playing back an applied effect can result from:

lack of horsepower of your computer

highly compressed source material

miss-match between source material and sequence settings

among other reasons.

Have you tried rendering the effect? Does the problem continue?

Have you tried lowering the playback resolution of your program monitor o see if you get smoother playback?

What are the properties of your source material?

What are your sequence settings?

What version of Premiere Pro are you using?

What hardware and operating system?

MtD

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 06, 2017 Jan 06, 2017

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Thank you for a thoughtful response.  Admittedly my OP could have been much clearer and I apologize for that.

For the record, I tried the solution outlined by chrisw44157881 -- indeed it works, to the extent that PPro does place a default transition at every ...

The source material is ordinary DV tape, via Sony camcorder ca. 2004.  All settings for resolution are at their defaults (IE, to match the source).

I'm using a trial of PPro CC 2017, on a modest homemade box containing Intel Core I5-6600K 3.50 GHz; 16GB DDR4 DRAM 3200MHz; EVGA GeForce GTX 750Ti SC 2GB GDDR5 Graphics; Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SATA III Internal SSD; 3T and 5T internal and external HDDs.

At this point, I would like to start over by asking for step by step instructions for changing ordinary hard edits (immediate scene changes) to a simple crossfades.  Timing is not crucial (the default crossfade is fine), as these changes are being made before any other editing or placement of audio or other elements in the footage.

Thanks.

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LEGEND ,
Jan 06, 2017 Jan 06, 2017

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As has been discussed, you will have to manually trim the heads and tails prior to adding transitions. Sorry there is not a faster way.

Thanks

Jeff

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LEGEND ,
Jan 06, 2017 Jan 06, 2017

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If not to LEARN how to DO, what is purpose of this forum?

Essentially the purpose of this forum is to find out why the things you already know how to do aren't working properly, as does sometimes happen, or to learn advanced techniques that aren't covered in the software operation manual.

This or any other forum is NOT a proper substitute for learning both the subject of video editing and the operation of the software before you start working with it.

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LEGEND ,
Jan 06, 2017 Jan 06, 2017

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The only "unnecessary difficulty" I have had is experiencing what appears to be a bug when implementing a cross dissolve at a cut between two scenes.

That's incorrect.  The difficulty you're having is in not knowing how transitions work in NLEs.

Had you done your homework, you'd know that, and not be here asking this question.

Hence, unnecessary difficulty.

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LEGEND ,
Jan 06, 2017 Jan 06, 2017

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Reader's choice indeed! What a tool.

Ahhh.  I see you've chosen to ignore the message.

OK.  See you back here soon.

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Explorer ,
Oct 20, 2023 Oct 20, 2023

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The nerve to rag on someone who is having an issue with Adobe software (can you imagine that of all things!?) and telling them that "if you just knew EVERYTHING about your problem you wouldn't be having a PROBLEM!..." is pure, elitist, fanboy-ism.  It is also, unfortunately, all to common in Adobe forums.  I'm thankful for people like R Neil Haugen who at the very least have the audicity to actually try and be helpful to the users asking questions instead of trolling the wall to be antagonistic ... whatever makes a person feel like there life has meaning, I guess... 
Anyone can run into crazy, ridiculous issues with Adobe software at any point because they happen ALL the time.  You can choose to offer an answer and move on or simply just, move - on.  The alternative of making adobe look even worse by antagonizing someone asking a question is not needed.  

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Community Beginner ,
Oct 20, 2023 Oct 20, 2023

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Evan5FE1 -- Thank you for this, nearly 7 years later, LOL... but
seriously, at the time of my OP I was simply naivé about what you speak...
good lord but there are huge snob TOOLS lurking about everywhere.... and
one must expect to have to weed through their condescending useless
'replies' to find a few sane & helpful ones -- and yes, Haugen is very
helpful. Also, good to have validation -- as I've suspected then and since
(with many Adobe programs), there are crazy issues to be discovered all the
time. Anyway, I never did complete the project but intend to go back to
the hours of camcorder footage -- not to go full Spielberg on it, haha --
just to smooth the abrubt scene changes... automatically, if possible, with
newer software. Where I may have tripped myself was not using accurate
terminology... what I called a 'transition' is just the simple, quick fade
out/fade in *of existing frames*, not removing or adding anything. So the
abrupt scene cut is not as jarring. It's not about making an award winning
presentation! I don't know (or care) what the average PrPro user is doing
with the software, but clearly I bit off too much, dove into it, and got
shamed for that.

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Explorer ,
Oct 20, 2023 Oct 20, 2023

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alexjmich, 

That's hilarious that this post is this old, I had no idea.  Ironically, it's because I am a very experienced PP user and have been for years, and on several occasions I still run into weird issues with transitions (among other things) and I had just run into another one and wound up here, searching for an answer.  I've noticed that it's common in scenarios with troubleshooting problems in Premiere that I discover posts from centuries ago where users are having THE EXACT SAME PROBLEMS that I am currently, having... pointing out the sad truth that Adobe never took the time to fix said issue.  Premiere is unfortunately riddled with issues... and it seems like the newer it gets the more problems it developes.  

Niel is very helpful... and he's an ACTUAL help, vs what seems like the common "it's your fault, you're doing it wrong" responders that often flood these forums.  So, I am happy to have been of any validation... even if I'm 7 years late, lol. 

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Community Beginner ,
Oct 20, 2023 Oct 20, 2023

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LATEST
Evan -- Yeah, initially I didn't even know what you were referring to,
haha... then I pulled up the thread and saw the date... it all came back to
me. Well, reading through it, at least I stood up for myself, which only
landed upon the deaf ears of the "all knowing, all seeing"...

I guess when I started out (DOS, then Windows 3.1) and dial-up forums
became available, folks weren't so jaded and full of themselves... or
whatever happened since. The novelty of being able to reach out like that
was part of it, I suppose -- and being strictly text-based, no one was
discussing VIDEO EDITING yet! Geez, it took forever to download a simple
GIF (before JPG took over), let alone a motion clip.

Someone mentioned an open source freeware that might offer the automated
camcorder footage cleanup that I sought/seek... and after all this time,
with everyone shooting on phones now, I suppose there are many newer apps,
dumbed-down for the masses? I was too 'dumb' to buy PrPro but here it
still sits, and every time I load it up, it frustrates me because I've not
bothered to start from zero, take a course, or haul out the manual. Got
other things to do! (Does anyone buy slightly used Adobe licenses? LOL)

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LEGEND ,
Jan 06, 2017 Jan 06, 2017

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IMHO if PP "forces" the user to locate handles manually, that does not necessarily make it a better or more precise editor.  At the very least, Adobe could have simply provided an option to automate the process, letting us idiots use a quality software without always choosing-every-single-step manually.

Actually it does not force the user to locate handles..manual or otherwise. In fact it is simply  requires the edit points to be chosen inside the available media ie edited accordingly and Premiere will applythe transitionof choice. 

Adobe can not "automate" a process that is impossible. Its is a fundamental of editing as regards transitions, that "handles" are required. 

Transitions are by definition , not designed to "smooth" clip to clip without handles.  A transition is "change over time"!  No frames for a transition means no time for a transition to occur.

The choice of editing points is a consideration that editors make. Its a "craft". Generally that decision is made around content of action and story.  Same goes for applying a transition or not.

Basically you are wanting to chuck on "smoothing transitions" at the wrong place in your clip.

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Mentor ,
Jan 03, 2017 Jan 03, 2017

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Apply default transitions between selected clips

You can apply the default video and audio transitions to any selection of two or more clips. The default transitions are applied to EVERY edit point where two selected clips touch. The placement does not depend upon the position of the current-time indicator or on whether the clips lie on targeted tracks. The default transitions are not applied where a selected clip touches a non-selected clip or no clip at all.

  • In the Timeline, select two or more clips. Shift-click clips, or draw a marquee over them, to select them.

  • Select Sequence > Apply Default Transitions To Selection.

    Applying transitions in Premiere Pro

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