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Pepe Gazzo
Known Participant
October 24, 2022
Answered

Export looks good in H264 but dark in ProRes / DNXHR

  • October 24, 2022
  • 2 replies
  • 2560 views

So I have a timeline in Rec 709.

When I export a master to ProRes4444XQ and DNXHR 444 and open the file in VLC its way darker than in the editor. But, if I export to H264 colors in VLC are the same. 

 

Why is that? 

    This topic has been closed for replies.
    Correct answer R Neil Haugen

    As discussed off-forum, the problem was within VLC. The user changed settings there, and all is now showing correctly. Though I don't know what settings they changed.

     

    A likely issue is having the player set to handle Rec.709 media as "full", which is incorrect. Rec.709 media is 'full' by image dynamic range, but encoded in 'limited' range for historic reasons. It is then displayed, correctly, as full range values on a properly set system.

     

    "Regular" Rec.709 is technically encoded as Y-Cb/Cr. The 4:4:4:4 media, like the ProRes4444HQ and DNxHR/444 are (technically" encoded as RGB ... and are supposed to be encoded as 'full' range. And will be shown as such by correctly set systems.

     

    But if somewhere between the OS, GPU, or player settings, somehow Rec.709 got set to 'full', then normal Rec.709 is shown as full ... and the 4444/RGB codecs are displayed with crushed blacks and clipped whites.

     

    That may have been an issue here.

     

    Neil

    2 replies

    R Neil Haugen
    R Neil HaugenCorrect answer
    Legend
    October 24, 2022

    As discussed off-forum, the problem was within VLC. The user changed settings there, and all is now showing correctly. Though I don't know what settings they changed.

     

    A likely issue is having the player set to handle Rec.709 media as "full", which is incorrect. Rec.709 media is 'full' by image dynamic range, but encoded in 'limited' range for historic reasons. It is then displayed, correctly, as full range values on a properly set system.

     

    "Regular" Rec.709 is technically encoded as Y-Cb/Cr. The 4:4:4:4 media, like the ProRes4444HQ and DNxHR/444 are (technically" encoded as RGB ... and are supposed to be encoded as 'full' range. And will be shown as such by correctly set systems.

     

    But if somewhere between the OS, GPU, or player settings, somehow Rec.709 got set to 'full', then normal Rec.709 is shown as full ... and the 4444/RGB codecs are displayed with crushed blacks and clipped whites.

     

    That may have been an issue here.

     

    Neil

    Everyone's mileage always varies ...
    Waldorf & Statler
    Waldorf & Statler
    Inspiring
    February 7, 2023

    Hi Neil,

    we talk about DNxHR 444, a long time a go.

    Right is that DNxHR 444 is Y-Cb/Cr!   

    All tools correctly interpret this as Y-Cb/Cr legal range, only ADOBE interprets it incorrectly as RGB full range.

    444 is not the same as RGB!
    444 and RGB have brightness and color information for each pixel,
    with RGB as full range and with 444 as legal range.
    = is therefore not correct!

     

    We now this bug from 2017!

     

    Perhaps, this is a reason, that VLC interpret DNxHR 444 wrong.

     

    R Neil Haugen
    R Neil Haugen
    Legend
    February 7, 2023

    Hey there!

     

    One of Adobe's top color people can give chapter and verse of why all 4444 are by 'law' standard supposed to be full. Although Avid says their 4444 can be either ... and apparently, same with the non-alpha 444.

     

    I figure that the 'owner' of the format is the arbiter for that format ... so if Avid says it can be either, well ... right?

     

    Thee and me are not the powers that be ... sadly!

     

    Neil

    Everyone's mileage always varies ...
    R Neil Haugen
    R Neil Haugen
    Legend
    October 24, 2022

    Have you changed the monitor settings so your monitor runs "full" range for Rec.709?

     

    Neil

    Everyone's mileage always varies ...
    P
    Pepe GazzoAuthor
    Known Participant
    October 24, 2022

    I think I don't even have that option on my monitor. It's an Acer Nitro VG280K. IPS. 38480x2160. 4ms. 300nit. HDR10. 10bit (8bits + FRC) and I can't seem to find an option regarding Rec.709. Its on "HDR" mode. 

     

    I'm so confused on why the H264 looks exactly the same as in the NLE, but ProRes and DNXR don't. 

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