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toddp39531300
Participant
November 26, 2016
Question

HDR Export from Premiere Pro 2017 is flat

  • November 26, 2016
  • 3 replies
  • 9700 views

Hi.

Using Raw footage from my Red camera (and using Red gamma 4/Dragon color 2) I am seeing some weird issues when I export to HEVC.

I am trying to view the exported file with MPC-HC with MadVR plugin on an LG 31MU97-B 10-bit 4K DCI monitor on Windows 10.  I can't say for 100 sure that I have playback set up correctly, but here is what I am seeing.

The output looks flat like RAW or ungraded log when I export as HDR (HDR10).  At first I thought this might have to do with using the Rec 2020 primaries, but if I use the Rec 2020 color space, but not HDR, the exported video retains the expected color saturation.  When checking HDR (which requires Rec 2020) then I get the flat image.

I've tried demo files that are Rec 2020 and HDR10.  While my display can only manage 320 nits, it does appear to output 10-bit HDR content without problems.

Any suggestions would be great.  I'd love to see my Red footage in all its HDR glory without having to look just at raw files.

    This topic has been closed for replies.

    3 replies

    E
    excited_Genie16B8
    Legend
    November 26, 2016

    I did not find anything saying that display was HDR capable.  Perhaps it isn't?

    chrisw44157881
    chrisw44157881
    Inspiring
    November 26, 2016

    i don't believe so, that's why the lut transform from ST2084 to P3 is going to be really fun for him. i.e. a pain in the butt for a a specially calibrated LUT.

    for example, that monitor is capped out at 320 nits, which is 320cd/m^2. HDR is at least 1,000 going up to 10,000. dolby recommends 4,000. That monitor can do >93%DCI P3, it just won't have the contrast range or brightness necessary for grading hdr properly.

    http://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-vision/dolby-vision-white-paper.pdf

    T
    toddp39531300Author
    Participant
    November 28, 2016

    i was going to do a bunch of tests, but Wow, you have to read this.
    its like a 20 page review of current hdr support in premiere.

    Blog — Mystery Box

    also, i will be testing this later, but dennis, the adobe color engineer said you can input HDR's ST2084 via jpeg2000 and exporter now includes a 12-bit PQ option when you select the RGB 4:4:4 12-Bit PQ


    Wow.  Thanks Chris.  I'm really glad you read this before doing a bunch of tests.

    The entire review is well worth the read, but the section on HDR answers all of my questions.

    The summary is that:

    1) Premiere will only recognize HDR files that are HEVC files with the appropriate metadata (forget about RAW or any intermediate formats)

    2) You can grade in HDR, but there is no way to see the output in HDR (fine for me as I use Resolve)

    3) The HDR export function does not include the necessary metadata, making the output useless

    The author sums it up well by saying:

    "Call it simple feature bandwagoning, or engineers that didn’t consult real creative professionals, or blame it on whatever reason you will.  But the fact is, this [HDR] ‘feature’ is utter shit, which to me sours the whole release, just a little."

    He goes on to make a very valid point that to people who are new to HDR workflow will use Premiere Pro's incomplete/defective HDR tools and create awful looking output.

    Until PPro 2017.1 or .2 or 2018 or however long it takes for them to create working HDR tools, it looks like FFMPEG is my only option. Mysterybox has another excellent blog post about grading and mastering HDR.  At the end of the blog post, in the section titled Distribution, he gives the encoder settings that they use.  I'll give this a try soon and respond with my results.

    Regarding the ST2084/JPEG2000 input, that sounds like a painful way to input.  Where can you select the PQ in the export options?

      R Neil Haugen
      R Neil Haugen
      Legend
      November 26, 2016

      HDR video... I'm expecting you understand  ... isn't at all the equivalent of HDR still photos.

      I've been following the work of several colorists as they prepare their suites and gear to handle this. It's a complete new game, and not totally gear ready in some ways.

      So  ... the reference monitor you grade on needs to be able to handle the range  ... is just the beginning.

      Neil

      Everyone's mileage always varies ...
      chrisw44157881
      chrisw44157881
      Inspiring
      November 26, 2016

      in the meantime, while you wrap your head around inverse lutting a new technology,

      you can use SDR Conform to convert your HDR video to SDR for playback on non-HDR devices.

      chrisw44157881
      chrisw44157881
      Inspiring
      November 26, 2016

      both the HDR10 and dolby format use Rec 2020 and ST2084 which do indeed look like LOG.

      I don't have a definite answer for you right now as I am actually working on a LUT

      transform myself with dispcal. You need to match up the white point, white level(nits), black level, gamma curve rolloff, etc.

      what is your monitor calibrated to? Adobe RGB or P3 D65?

      http://files.spectracal.com/Documents/White%20Papers/HDR_Demystified.pdf

      http://www.lightillusion.com/uhdtv.html

      examples

      OpenColorIO-Configs/aces_1.0.1/luts at master · imageworks/OpenColorIO-Configs · GitHub

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