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Kizzume
Inspiring
November 5, 2020
Answered

How do I keep Premiere from changing the gamma of an image in a rendered video?

  • November 5, 2020
  • 14 replies
  • 7723 views

When I'm in Premiere, the image looks normal, but when I render the video, the image looks like the gamma has been turned up and it seems a little more washed out.  I can't seem to represent a nice fade to black.  Pure black shows up black, but anything else shows up lighter than it should be.

 

Here is an example of this happening.  The darker image is the original, and the lighter one is what Premiere renders in the final video.  Depending on your monitor settings, this may be a little hard to see in the examples I provided. 

 

Either way, is there a setting somewhere that can stop this from happening?  This problem started showing up in v13.

 

Thanks.

This topic has been closed for replies.
Correct answer Kizzume

As was noted by Francis Crossman in the post on this forum when they "dropped" the correction LUT, that was only for Mac users that wanted to change the image to appear outside of Premiere (or properly managed color management) on a Mac sort of mostly. It was announced on this forum, as it was released, as 1) a one-way trip, and 2) that it would cause issues for non-Mac viewers then on other gear.

 

So that gamma change LUT was released as a response to demands from Mac users, with full warnings. Your comments about it are understandable (how could anyone assume that without knowing the full history?) yet incorrect. Both as to why it was released and the "Adobe" attitude about it.

 

As far as Resolve "solving" anything ... I've just followed two different, lengthy disourses by colorists and color management types on color management ... and color managment is a mess that is simply not handled well period.

 

As one put it, from extensive testing that makes yours look very basic ... nothing that the user can do will generate a file from Resolve that will be seen correctly across apps and players and systems. He ended up listing a bunch of different scenarios, all of the "do X and it will look correct on Y, Z, and Q but awful on P using S or D ... " nature.

 

So there were some combinations where if your user was going to be viewing the file on X with Z player, or Y with D app, you could use Q settings for Resolve's export. BUT ... if someone was going to be looking at on X with M player, you needed to export with a different setting.

 

To get his various people seeing something mostly sort of what he was doing in Resolve, he needed to do up to three different exports for the variuos people to use, and track which version he sent to whom. He's not a happy camper.

 

You are most welcome to use Resolve. I use it some myself, as I need to be familiar with it due to the fact that I teach colorists how to work in Premiere, and I need to know how they do things in Resolve. I've not had a chance to test the new 17.x version, which sounds interesting as they finally really updated the color stuff, first time since the 15.x release.

 

But in general, for me, the interface is a pain and I greatly dislike the edit page especially. A good friend love love loves their edit page, and more power to him. We're all different, and in the end, all these apps are fancy hammers.

 

Use the hammer that works for you. And competition in offerings is a good thing.

 

Neil

 

 


It looks fine when I'm importing psd files and bmp files, but looks gamma shifted when I import jpg and png files.  At least I've figured out the cause of the whole issue.  This is definitely a bug.  I'll likely create an entirely new thread to report this issue.

14 replies

Inspiring
November 6, 2020

Thanks for having a sense of humor for my previous post. 

anyway, it's really about the story, like " once upon a time'...

All the distribution business and production stuff is about money and a business, except when it is about telling a story people want to hear and see. The movie business is a factory in many ways, but Adobe and others make NLE programs to make telling stories easier and less expenive.

That's the main thing, in my mind.

If the gamma or gamut is off a little bit in rec 709 space ( adobe ) it doesn't matter much at this point.

 

I just want to watch your movie about some universe cloud. ?????

 

 

Kizzume
KizzumeAuthor
Inspiring
November 6, 2020

"I just want to watch your movie about some universe cloud."

 

LOL it's just part of the background for my intro on my videos.

 

Yes, I'm likely making a much bigger deal out of this than it really is.  I'm stuck in the Adobe ecosystem, I have too much invested in it to actually make a switch to other software.  Besides, I can't stand DaVinci Resolve's "node" system, where to do basic things you have to create boxes and connect lines between them just to get basic functionality, and Resolve has no decent multi-monitor support--you can't span the interface across different screens. 

 

Besides, nobody has made comments on any of my YouTube videos about my intro looking bad since I was forced to go with a later version of Premiere after a computer upgrade earlier this year.  I don't think they'd even notice since most of them are using mobile devices to begin with.

R Neil Haugen
Legend
November 6, 2020

Color management ... what actually happens with that ... is complex and something that few people understand.

 

You talk about Premiere 'degrading' your image, but ... unless you have a fully calibrated system with a monitor that has been calibrated to a T with an external puck & software like the i1 Display Pro or better ... and are certain your OS is not messing with the signal (they normally do) ... then you simply do not know what your pixels really are.

 

No camera made, not even the spendy RED and Arri rigs, have a totally accurate screen on the camera. No player or OS works perfectly with Rec.709 media ... Windows at least doesn't totally mess things up on purpose, like the new Macs do, as Apple decided to mess with the standard in their color management utility. Windows doesn't help you, mind you ...

 

All monitors come with settings that are bluntly wrong. Even thousand dollar rigs with nice certificates of color test accuracy will not be close when checked running a profile with say the puck from the i1 Display Pro and Lightspace color management/profiling software using Resolve for color patches.

 

Back to your issue ... Premiere is trying to accurately manage the color and tonality ... chroma and luma values ... but your system isn't set to the standards. So there is a difference between how things look in Premiere and outside Premiere on your system. If you can set your system up close enough to the standards so things look pretty close within and without Premiere, you will be a lot closer to accurate than you are now.

 

And your exports will look closer ... relatively ... to other pro produced media on other screens. Nothing ever looks completely the same on other screens, of course. Pro colorists can't force that, how could we do what they can't?

 

The problem isn't that Premiere is degrading your image ... it's that everything else on your computer is. But you've accepted that as the correct view because it's what you've seen so far. An analogy that drives colorists nuts is the director or DP that has been viewing the project while shooting in Log without correction LUTs or settings. So they've gotten used to the flat, low-sat image. And when the colorist normalized the image, the director/DP say ... that's wrong!

 

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...
Kizzume
KizzumeAuthor
Inspiring
November 6, 2020

"The problem isn't that Premiere is degrading your image ... it's that everything else on your computer is. But you've accepted that as the correct view because it's what you've seen so far."

 

LOL I've given direct examples of how Premiere changes the image--maybe you don't consider the changes made to the image a "degradation", but it certainly has changed the image.  Older versions didn't do this and I'm just trying to find out if there's a way to keep this from happening outside pirating an older verison of Premiere or going with a completely different program.  This has nothing to do with my monitor.  The proof is right there in the images I supplied.

Inspiring
November 6, 2020

I used to dine at The Gingerman in NYC near Lincoln Center ( 64th and Broadway). I lived on 64th St. down the block between CPW and Bway. And I was a regular at the place. I loved the people who worked there and the food they made, etc.

If I ordered a Filet Mignon medium rare and it got delivered on my plate slightly more medium than rare ( I love raw meat cause I'm an animal ) I would just eat it. No sense complaining and hurting the feelings of those who are doing there very best to give you what you want.

You sound like a whiner and someone who asks for special exceptions to what's on the menu.

My laptop shows NOTHING substantial in your screenshots, from what you want and what you got.

 

Get over it.

🙂

 

Kizzume
KizzumeAuthor
Inspiring
November 6, 2020

"You sound like a whiner and someone who asks for special exceptions to what's on the menu.  My laptop shows NOTHING substantial in your screenshots, from what you want and what you got."

 

V12 and previous versions didn't degrade the quality.  That's nice that your laptop didn't show anything substantial, laptops usually have crappy quality screens to begin with, it's like looking at a smartphone screen. 

 

There's no reason why Premiere needs to degrade the image quality--if people want "broadcast standards", THEY should have to be the ones to apply an LUT, not people who just want the image to retain the same properties as the original source files.

 

It really doesn't seem to be too much to ask to want the output to look the same as the original files.

Community Expert
November 5, 2020

What is your OS, and what app are you viewing the outputs in?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------JVK | Editor/Designer/Software Instructor. Pr, Ae, Ch, Ps, Ai, Id
Kizzume
KizzumeAuthor
Inspiring
November 5, 2020

Thanks for the reply.  I'm using Windows 10.  It even does it when I output as jpg, which is what you see in the examples. The app I'm viewing the outputs in doesn't really make any difference--I use PotPlayer, VLC, Windows Media Player, Movies & TV, and Photos, and it also shows the same way when I upload to YouTube.  Since Premiere v13, this has been the issue.  I'd be happy to go back to v12, but Adobe doesn't give that as an option anymore, sadly.

Kizzume
KizzumeAuthor
Inspiring
November 6, 2020

Is "Display Color Management" checked off in the preferences? 

 

Here's an article about it:

 

https://premierepro.net/color-management-premiere-pro/


Thanks for the reply.  If I turn it off, it displays the image in the playback screen in Premiere the way the rendered output file looks (instead of looking correct), it displays it with a gamma shift.  Is there a way to stop it from doing the gamma shift?

 

Thanks.