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Maxim Chernousov
Participating Frequently
September 25, 2024
Answered

How to stylize a video like HDR style?

  • September 25, 2024
  • 1 reply
  • 1753 views

Hi Community

 

I would like to stylize my video to look like HDR.

For photos, creating an HDR image requires taking several shots at different exposures and merging them using special software.

Is there a simple way to achieve this with video? Does it require shooting multiple versions of the video at different exposures? This isn't always feasible, as scene content may change, and not all cameras allow manual exposure adjustments.

I've seen samples of HDR video on YouTube that were likely shot from a single source rather than merged from several. Are there some software to stylize any video as HDR, or is it necessary to use specialized cameras?

    This topic has been closed for replies.
    Correct answer AlphaPlugins

    It's neither pessimistic nor optimistic. This is freakishly different tech, and it simply takes a while to sort out what works practically.

     

    We've been through something like three completely different screen technologies as the manufacturers are trying to find something that is capable of both wide color volumes and gamuts, along with wider dynamic range. 

     

    There have been two continually difficult issues ... solving uneven screen color/brightness in manufacturing processes, and inability to hold wide brightness/color ranges for any length of time without damage to or failure of the screen in use.

     

    Quantam Dot tech seems to be the current answer, and is the form of Flander's new and incredible HDR Grade 1 Reference monitors ... and even more amazingly, is the incredibly low price ... like the Flanders XMP310, a 31" HDR mastering monitor, and is only $10,995. 

     

    That is about the finest mastering monitor ... like it's larger siblings ... but at under $11G, it's less than half of what you needed to spend a year ago.

     

    Unfortunately, all current TVs and computer monitors in the more "affordable" ranges have internal processing to 1) protect the screen from burn-in/over-heating and 2) "enhance the viewing experience!" ... both of which can not be completely turned off. Even with the "technician's remote". 

     

    So the screen will shift overall and regional brightness and contrast, up and down, while playing. Especially as it has say a bright segment of the image, it will slowly dim that region down.

     

    Think of that ... you're working on a clip, it's got some pretty bright stuff, and some other things that need color/tonal attention ... so you spend a couple minutes on it, and it looks good. 

     

    Now you play it back without stopping, and ... it ain't the same! Yep. You didn't notice that it was dimming on you, so you kept brightening the bright thing. Which on general playback at full speed is now well over-bright from what you wanted.

     

    That's one of the reasons it is so hard to do HDR video production without those spendy actual reference monitors. Which have been between $23,000 and $35,000 up until the new Flanders series was released last spring.

     

    So when the screen you are relying on for grading your HDR is constantly, slowly shifting ... it's not a great tool. Yea, you can get by, and for "playing" with it, go for it! ... just understand the limitations of the tech available.

     

    And that doesn't even talk about the general user screens out there ... which again, have been made by tons of different companies, have different specs, all have variances from "expected" as a normal part of manufacturing capabilities ... such as screen uniformity problems, color shift due to temperature changes locally across the screen, simply 'off' pixels, let alone hardware processor variances, OS variances, user settings screwups, all that sort of normal "out in the public use" stuff.

     

    Now ... overlay that with several different forms of HDR ... DolbyVision (DV) as the high-end, down to HLG or HDR-10 on general computer/TV screen/device use ... but the color space/volumes are all over the place.

     

    Let's se P3 as the "center", one of the wider currently possible color volumes. Much pro media is actually done as say "Rec.2084 limited to P3" or some variant of that ... well, X screen does "close to 100% P3" ... except that means it doesn't actually do the whole thing, and that "10%" you're missing won't be the same color segment ... hues ... as on another screen's 'missing' volume.

     

    And most screens that claim P3 capabilities have the ability to use P3 data, but not really the full capability to reproduce the full range of P3 color. And again, every screen out there ... not just between different models, but within each screen model, will produce a slightly to notably different color display of the same image.

     

    And again, that's of the screens claiming P3 compatibility! Most screens out there are simply incapable of reproducing a decently large portion of P3 accurately. And as it takes time to have older tech things go out of use, this will be an issue for some years yet.

     

    Newer tech screens will be better at this, but it will be years to get them into wider use, and there will always be huge variants in the reality of the displayed image screen to screen. We simply cannot manufacture at a level to get past that ... it isn't phsyically possible.

     

    All that said, every colorist I know wants to get into the Future and do mostly HDR as soon as possible.

     

    It just isn't possible to do that easily, at moderate cost, at this time. But that is what they want to get to. Currently, there are quite a few colorists saying to their clients, "Ok, this is an SDR production; but how about I do the grade in Dolbyvision (DV) ... and a trim pass to SDR for your current release needs, meaning that this production has an archived DV form when you want to update?" ... as a way to encourage their clients to move forward.

     

    The biggest problem is cost though. Even a 48" LG C3 screen, run from a Decklink card, and calibrated as best possible for DV work is gonna run over $4,000 after calibration costs. That's hiring the calibration service, not paying for $5G of calibration spectros. And it won't be a guaranteed setup for any broadcast work, though ... it might be possible to squeak by with it.

     

    And that will be limited to 1,000 nits max, probably wiser to stick to 800 or under. But that is reality at this time.

     

    I saw my stuff on a full-on HDR reference monitor for the first time at the 2019 NAB/Vegas show, where I presented on Premiere Pro's color management in the FlandersFSI/MixingLight booth. Between the DV guy from Dolby Labs and Alexis Van Hurkman's presentation on his new indie HDR film ... not that that was an intimidating slot to be in!

     

    But just ... wow ... I knew the presentations were going to be on a large Flanders HDR reference monitor, a brand new model of the time ... so I'd set my brightest stuff up around 800 nights, and stepping out front to look at it was ... wow.

     

    Visually ... just ... yea, I want that too! .... but ... five years later, and I still can't justify the cost within my business of a full-on HDR grading setup. THAT ... is frustrating. But I can't argue the bottom line stuff. It just is, hardcore data. Sigh.


    Hi LesnLord

    I think you are looking for something like AlphaPlugins HDR Enhanced plugin. This tool allows you to stylize SDR video as pseudo-HDR. I hope my answer will be useful to you

    1 reply

    R Neil Haugen
    R Neil Haugen
    Legend
    September 25, 2024

    No. Period. No.

     

    Now that we have that out of the way, please understand when you transition from stills to video, you must leave most of your expectations and assmptions for how things work behind.

     

    I've had a long pro portrait studio/environmental career behind me, over 40 years. I was technically one of the more knowledgeable portrait photogs around the profession. We had over 20 years of running a full wet lab to do our own color and black and white printing in-house, and did competition prints for many pro photographers getting things ready for PPA competitions.

     

    Note, we were expensive for that service ... you came to us because you wanted to win ... and were willin' to pay.

     

    Our first Photoshop was Cs4.5, used with a flatbed scanner, for copy & restoration work, mid--90s. We were also one of the first professional studios on the west coast to go into full digital production, around 2002, at least a year before we should have done so. Oh ... well ... we got very good at fixing in Photoshop fast. Started with Lightroom's public beta 0.8. Yea, been there.

     

    I started into video and video post a bit over a decade back, thinking it would be very similar. Just ... no. Not even close.

     

    In stills you can create wide dynamic range tonally via stacked exposures. As you note. But that is not possible in video production!

     

    In video, you need to both shoot in an HDR format, and then have the proper gear and knowledge to work in HDR ... which at this time, is still the total Wild Wild West.

     

    I work for/with/teach pro colorists, including the team that Dolby hired to do the inhouse training video program for using DolbyVision HDR in Resolve for broadcast and streaming deliveries. I'm a contributing author on MixingLight, a pro colorist's subscription teaching website and group. I'm around the practical discussions of HDR on a daily basis.

     

    Most colorists still have not delivered a single paid gig in an HDR format. And realisticallyt, most screens that say they do HDR video, only do one or two of the several competing formats. And probably do not do the formats they do handle as you would expect they would. So a lot of professionally produced media is still total Rec.709.

     

    That will change over the next couple years, I'd expected it to change faster. But producing video HDR, that displays as expected across devices, is still pretty hit & miss. Sadly.

    Everyone's mileage always varies ...
    M
    Maxim ChernousovAuthor
    Participating Frequently
    September 26, 2024

    Thank, Nail, for the answer. Your experience is impressive.

     

    I’m realize that there are a lot of difficulties with HDR in video. But my ambitions are more modest. I just would like stylize video that it looks like HDR. I don’t want just modify color palette with LUT or curves because it makes picture too saturated and not realistic.

     

    In Photoshop these are some plugins which let stylize picture like a HDR. Especially, I like a feature named “Dramatic Light” that lets to prove some hidden structures and details on picture like clouds, reflections and etc. (not just increase sharpness but rather increase some frequencies of details). Like on  the illustration in attach.

     

    Few years ago, I’ve met an AfterEffect plugin (if I’m not mistaken the author was a Japanese). But this plugin works slowly and there were many bad artifacts on picture like white halo around dark objects and etc. This cannot be used even on miniDV resolution and quality was poor and as result I don’t want to use it.

     

    I hope, since then some progress should be in this field and maybe some common solution already exists and can be recommended

    A
    AlphaPluginsCorrect answer
    Participant
    September 30, 2024

    It's neither pessimistic nor optimistic. This is freakishly different tech, and it simply takes a while to sort out what works practically.

     

    We've been through something like three completely different screen technologies as the manufacturers are trying to find something that is capable of both wide color volumes and gamuts, along with wider dynamic range. 

     

    There have been two continually difficult issues ... solving uneven screen color/brightness in manufacturing processes, and inability to hold wide brightness/color ranges for any length of time without damage to or failure of the screen in use.

     

    Quantam Dot tech seems to be the current answer, and is the form of Flander's new and incredible HDR Grade 1 Reference monitors ... and even more amazingly, is the incredibly low price ... like the Flanders XMP310, a 31" HDR mastering monitor, and is only $10,995. 

     

    That is about the finest mastering monitor ... like it's larger siblings ... but at under $11G, it's less than half of what you needed to spend a year ago.

     

    Unfortunately, all current TVs and computer monitors in the more "affordable" ranges have internal processing to 1) protect the screen from burn-in/over-heating and 2) "enhance the viewing experience!" ... both of which can not be completely turned off. Even with the "technician's remote". 

     

    So the screen will shift overall and regional brightness and contrast, up and down, while playing. Especially as it has say a bright segment of the image, it will slowly dim that region down.

     

    Think of that ... you're working on a clip, it's got some pretty bright stuff, and some other things that need color/tonal attention ... so you spend a couple minutes on it, and it looks good. 

     

    Now you play it back without stopping, and ... it ain't the same! Yep. You didn't notice that it was dimming on you, so you kept brightening the bright thing. Which on general playback at full speed is now well over-bright from what you wanted.

     

    That's one of the reasons it is so hard to do HDR video production without those spendy actual reference monitors. Which have been between $23,000 and $35,000 up until the new Flanders series was released last spring.

     

    So when the screen you are relying on for grading your HDR is constantly, slowly shifting ... it's not a great tool. Yea, you can get by, and for "playing" with it, go for it! ... just understand the limitations of the tech available.

     

    And that doesn't even talk about the general user screens out there ... which again, have been made by tons of different companies, have different specs, all have variances from "expected" as a normal part of manufacturing capabilities ... such as screen uniformity problems, color shift due to temperature changes locally across the screen, simply 'off' pixels, let alone hardware processor variances, OS variances, user settings screwups, all that sort of normal "out in the public use" stuff.

     

    Now ... overlay that with several different forms of HDR ... DolbyVision (DV) as the high-end, down to HLG or HDR-10 on general computer/TV screen/device use ... but the color space/volumes are all over the place.

     

    Let's se P3 as the "center", one of the wider currently possible color volumes. Much pro media is actually done as say "Rec.2084 limited to P3" or some variant of that ... well, X screen does "close to 100% P3" ... except that means it doesn't actually do the whole thing, and that "10%" you're missing won't be the same color segment ... hues ... as on another screen's 'missing' volume.

     

    And most screens that claim P3 capabilities have the ability to use P3 data, but not really the full capability to reproduce the full range of P3 color. And again, every screen out there ... not just between different models, but within each screen model, will produce a slightly to notably different color display of the same image.

     

    And again, that's of the screens claiming P3 compatibility! Most screens out there are simply incapable of reproducing a decently large portion of P3 accurately. And as it takes time to have older tech things go out of use, this will be an issue for some years yet.

     

    Newer tech screens will be better at this, but it will be years to get them into wider use, and there will always be huge variants in the reality of the displayed image screen to screen. We simply cannot manufacture at a level to get past that ... it isn't phsyically possible.

     

    All that said, every colorist I know wants to get into the Future and do mostly HDR as soon as possible.

     

    It just isn't possible to do that easily, at moderate cost, at this time. But that is what they want to get to. Currently, there are quite a few colorists saying to their clients, "Ok, this is an SDR production; but how about I do the grade in Dolbyvision (DV) ... and a trim pass to SDR for your current release needs, meaning that this production has an archived DV form when you want to update?" ... as a way to encourage their clients to move forward.

     

    The biggest problem is cost though. Even a 48" LG C3 screen, run from a Decklink card, and calibrated as best possible for DV work is gonna run over $4,000 after calibration costs. That's hiring the calibration service, not paying for $5G of calibration spectros. And it won't be a guaranteed setup for any broadcast work, though ... it might be possible to squeak by with it.

     

    And that will be limited to 1,000 nits max, probably wiser to stick to 800 or under. But that is reality at this time.

     

    I saw my stuff on a full-on HDR reference monitor for the first time at the 2019 NAB/Vegas show, where I presented on Premiere Pro's color management in the FlandersFSI/MixingLight booth. Between the DV guy from Dolby Labs and Alexis Van Hurkman's presentation on his new indie HDR film ... not that that was an intimidating slot to be in!

     

    But just ... wow ... I knew the presentations were going to be on a large Flanders HDR reference monitor, a brand new model of the time ... so I'd set my brightest stuff up around 800 nights, and stepping out front to look at it was ... wow.

     

    Visually ... just ... yea, I want that too! .... but ... five years later, and I still can't justify the cost within my business of a full-on HDR grading setup. THAT ... is frustrating. But I can't argue the bottom line stuff. It just is, hardcore data. Sigh.


    Hi LesnLord

    I think you are looking for something like AlphaPlugins HDR Enhanced plugin. This tool allows you to stylize SDR video as pseudo-HDR. I hope my answer will be useful to you

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