Simple question. I want my videos on YouTube to look like they do in Premiere (color and gamma), the only way I've found I can achieve that is by doing this:Export from Premiere as ProRes HQ, with a color space of Rec 709 Gamma 2.4Bring the export into After Effects and put it in a timeline that matches it's specsChange the Working Color Space to sRGBExport as ProRes HQBring the sRGB ProRes file into Media Encdoer and export as a H.264Upload to Youtube I'd like to avoid round tripping through After Effects to change it's color space. Is this possible?

Legend

Question

Is it possible to export sRGB from Premiere or Media Encoder?

Forum|Forum|1 year ago
April 18, 2024
3 replies
7396 views

Simple question. I want my videos on YouTube to look like they do in Premiere (color and gamma), the only way I've found I can achieve that is by doing this:

Export from Premiere as ProRes HQ, with a color space of Rec 709 Gamma 2.4
Bring the export into After Effects and put it in a timeline that matches it's specs
Change the Working Color Space to sRGB
Export as ProRes HQ
Bring the sRGB ProRes file into Media Encdoer and export as a H.264
Upload to Youtube

I'd like to avoid round tripping through After Effects to change it's color space. Is this possible?

kalamazandy

Known Participant

I swear I had figured this out at some point, but the issue made it's way back.
It seems that @R Neil Haugen is the most practiced expert in the area, so I made sure and put that tag to help clear things up.Color grading is one thing, and you might just deal with the fact that web, even different browsers, adjust video gamma slightly different from each other and ignore color profiles entirely. From what I can tell, browsers (and many video players in general) assume content is sRGB rather than Rec.709.

It's probably not a huge deal in most cases, but for branded material where a solid brand related color is used on a web page And a video, that color shift can be significant enough for graphic design folks to be upset.

I gave a video to someone and they said they changed the color profile to srgb and it matched much closer. I have no idea how they did that, but that's what they said. The challenge I always have is, regardless of being AfterEffects or Premiere, when I input a color, how do I tell the software that I'm specifying an sRGB color rather than whatever the working colorspace is?

Am I correct that Premiere only allows for working in Rec color spaces, but in AfterEffects you can specify the color space in ways that are incredibly confusing overall, but you've got serious control.

I would Love to find an in depth training on color spaces in terms of input and output, conversions, and monitors. It seems they are always focused on making sure I am seeing the color correctly, and that I am outputting the color based on the monitor I am viewing it on. That's definitely true for someone that is color grading. But if I'm doing a 4 color brand animation, I want to input the 4 sRGB values, and I want to output the same 4 sRGB values, ignoring my monitor profiles entirely. It becomes even More complicated when using OCIO color workflow with 32bit exr files which are treated as linear, and also having to mix in sRGB values (obviously talking about after effects here), then moving that footage to premiere, and output the final file as Rec.709...only to have the colors shift because the final output is displayed in a web browser that shifts the colors back to sRGB.

I may be incorrect about what's going on. I'm just trying to explain my understanding, and hoping to be pointed in the right direction at how to input an sRGB value for a solid color, and have the output h.264 file displayed in a web browser be as close as possible to the input value. Again, understanding there are slight differences in the sRGB values because sRGB is not a straight 2.2 gamma, so you can't just apply a gamma adjustment to get the same values.

R Neil Haugen

Legend

If you're needing to worry about a pro level color setup, then fhe first thing is you need someone to correctly calibrate your monitor! NO consumer/prosumer monitor comes really correctly set top to bottom ... period. I don't care what fancy certificate they send with it.

And if you don't have the charts from a profile pass, showing the actual results of color being sent to the monitor measured and graphed ... you have no way of knowing how close your monitor is to the standard.

Any proper calibration is a two-step process ... the first, the calibration, sets the monitor response according to the capabilities of the probe and software used coupled with monitor capabilities to be controlled.

The second step is a profile pass. Using a software designed to do this, it runs a set of color patches to the monitor, reads the results, and gives you a set of graphs showing what that monitor is now doing. Precisely.

After that, with a good or at least acceptable profile pass, you're at least seeing a pretty close to 'standard' image on screen.

You can do this yourself, or you can hire it done. LightIllusions.com and Calman both have the capabilities and the "white papers" explaining all of this on their websites. I highly recommend going to the LIghtIllusions website and looking through Steve Shaw's awesome set of papers on digital color, color spaces, hardware realities, and monitor settings and calibrations.

OK, i'm all calibrated and profiled ... will my clients be happy with my stuff?

Well, now the issue will be that their monitors are screwy, guaranteed ... and if they don't understand this, you have a bit of a pickle. It's something pro colorists have to deal with over and over. Most colorists have a very highlighted part of their standard everybody signs this!!!! contract, that specifically states all color and tonal corrections requested must be done while viewing on an approved monitor.

And they specifically list what they accept ... typically their own suite, or another broadcast standard suite.

I know a number of colorists who have a process for helping their clients get past the problem using one series of high-end Mac iPads. That particular unit, with some tweaking they do to image settings, can pretty closely match either Rec.709 or Rec.2100 (think HLG) and so they have a stack of them at their shop.

They loan them out to clients and attempt to get them back after delivery. But at least, the client is using a fairly decent screen for their evaluative process.

Past the above, many state that if the requested changes are from a non-approved monitor, those changes are final. And final payment will be due no matter what the client thinks later.

Premiere can easily fit within the proper color for most professional workflows. If you know what you start with, where you need to go, and what pass-throughs you need in specifics. There are still a couple things you can't really do well in Premiere, they are acknowledged by Mr. Van Hurkman, and will be forthcoming at some future point. Like a full-on ACES workflow.

What color management is currently available in Premiere?

Go to the Color Workspace, Lumetri panel, and the Settings tab. The tab named Settings.

There are several sections there, from project wide through clip and sequence, along with working space and pass-through options. If you need further information on those specifics, ask.

Shebbe or I or some others can pop in and help.

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

kalamazandy

Known Participant

I completely agree with the importance of monitors being calibrated in terms of accepting color adjustments, especially when viewed on different machines, locations, etc.

What I'm getting at is the trouble understanding at which point different profiles and adjustments are being applied/used. I'll try and wade through the 2 resources you mentioned, but I've found resources in the past and they were Very heavy on explaining the importance of calibration and I didn't find anything on how to accomplish it in practice.

In my case, I'm not making color adjustments. I'd like to know the workflow for inputting sRGB values, going through AfterEffects (or starting directly in premiere) and outputting a video that does not change the sRGB. For things like lower thirds, logo animations, giant branding rectangles for whatever reason, the colors need to be Relatively correct. Currently, I'm having troubles just inputting a color like a17d24 (sRGB) and outputting a video what that block of color samples at a17d24.

I recently had to work with the Aces workflow because I needed to use multi-layer exr files that were saved with a specific color profile, so that helped a bit that we have to worry about the input profile, what profile to use for a working profile (usually a linear profile for properly calculating light), a view profile, and an output profile. Of course, I'm probably still getting the rec.709 / sRGB problem here because I still don't understand that.

Thanks for mentioning the lumetri color panel, settings tab. I forgot that existed, and that wonderfully shows all of the related settings in one place rather than having to look at your premiere color settings, project settings, sequence, clip, etc.

In searching for this problem, I see lots of other people mentioning it, and the "solution" being people suggesting to just adjust the gamma when you go to render. Even in premiere, I can't seem to figure out the settings to set a color, then go to the export tab and sample that color that is export there. Is it Always adjusting the output file based on my monitor profile? Is that the answer? I have to switch my monitor profile to sRGB before exporting, because That would be terrible.

I've seen similar problems with graphic designers working in illustrator and photoshop, not understanding how profiles work with RGB and their monitors, just thinking "convert the CMYK color to RGB...and Done." Of course, it's way more complicated than that. But it's difficult to find the correct setups for windows or mac color profiles to use, and how to have the software setup as well. I remember at a previous job, we hired a professional to come down and calibrate the design team's monitors. They set everything up, and we realized most people were set up incorrectly because their operating system had the profile applied And Adobe software, so basically the change it adjusted for then made the same change in the wrong direction. It was getting applied twice, so it stacked. Even professionals get it wrong. That's why it's so important to see the entire intended workflow, and understand what it's doing.

If anyone finds this and has a good resource that walks through (for both windows and mac) color settings and how to handle proper rec.709 workflows as well as how to handle sRGB inputs and consistent outputs for web, I'm all ears. That's what I'm after. This was the closest discussion I could find that seemed correct. Most questions went unanswered, or just said to adjust it the best you can.

Peru Bob

Community Expert

@R Neil Haugen

Averdahl

Community Expert

I'd like to avoid round tripping through After Effects to change it's color space. Is this possible?

By @dparsons85

How does it look if you just upload the ProRes file directly to YouTube? Iow, export as ususal from Premiere Pro to ProRes and then upload that file without mixing in AE to the mix. (ProRes LT is sufficient for YT uploads)

dparsons85Author

Legend

Like all content exported with a color space of Rec 709 Gamma 2.4 it looks too bright, it's harder to notice on bright shots but on dark shots it's extremely noticeable. The only reason to go through After Effects is because, as far as I can tell, Premiere Pro can ONLY export Rec 709 Gamma 2.4 so I need to use After Effects to convert the color space to sRGB Gamma 2.2.

Also, I will not use the compensation LUT that Adobe sugests for two reasons, 1) it actually makes it too dark 2) this doesn't change the color space gamma to 2.2 so it doesn't update the gamma tags of the exported video so if you play your video on anything that does read gamma tags correctly you've essentially broken the gamma because it is no longer what the metadata tags specify.

dparsons85Author

Legend

Hmmm... I'm thinking about this now and just realized that if Media Encoder can't export sRGB then I'm essentially making it Rec 709 again by going though Media Encoder to create the H.264 correct? If so, this is basically like putting the Adobe compensation LUT on a piece of Rec 709 content, in that I've broken the relationship between the gamma and the gamma tags on the H.264. I'm not sure this is something I can get around though and might have to just accept the broken relationship unless anyone has a solution for encoding sRGB from Media Encoder.

Either way, the compensation LUT does not work (it's too dark) and sRGB looks right (even if it's faked by transcoding to H.264/Rec 709 through Media Encoder).

Going through After Effects just seems like the least effecient workflow for this and I would like to find a better solution.

Sign up

To post, reply, or follow discussions, please sign in with your Adobe ID.

Sign in to Adobe Community

To post, reply, or follow discussions, please sign in with your Adobe ID.

Scanning file for viruses.

This file cannot be downloaded