Multiple Bugs in Premiere 22.5 when using Proxies

[tinkthank av berlin]

I have some footage which is a 29.97 fps video (shot on DJI Osmo Pocket 2 / 8x Slowmo) which i (through "interpret footage") conformed to 25fps, to fit my 25fps project / timeline. I rendered proxies for the DJI clips.

Then I overlaid some animated graphics with alpha channel onto a video clip and manually tracked them onto the video, using keyframes in the "Anchor Point" parameters. 

Premiere v22.5 shows two (!) bugs when using proxies.

1. Switching the timeline viewer between Full Resolution and Proxy makes Premiere ignore the keyframes in the "Anchor Point" parameter.

2. Switching from Full Resolution to Proxy makes Premiere "forget" about the manually conformed framerate of the video-clip, the Proxy clip will run at the original framerate, and is not automatically conformed to the "parents" framerate.

Please fix this, this is very annoying.

[Ishan Y]

Hey Till24235339ha2a,

Sorry about the issue. Can you share a sample of your source files with us through a personal message so we can reproduce the issue on our end? Which settings did you use for creating the proxies? Please share your system specifications (OS, OS version, CPU, GPU, RAM). 

Regards,

Ishan

[tinkthank av berlin]

Send you a private message with a link to the consolidated project and required files. 

[Ishan Y]

Thank you. We'll test the files on our end and get back to you.

[R Neil Haugen]

For this work, do not use "interpret footage" to change the speed. Use Speed/Duration, and your proxies and original media will both work as you expect.

Neil

[Warren Heaton]

Premiere Pro's Proxy Workflow requires that the frame rate of the Proxy file match the frame rate of the Full Resolution clip.

For more details, review the notes at the bottom of Proxy workflow in the Adobe Premiere Pro User Guide.

[tinkthank av berlin]

The proxy files DO match the framerate of the original media file. Any "Interpret Footage" setting on the original video asset should should obviously be reflected on the proxy files -  something that Premiere should handle internally without user inetraction.

If Premiere does NOT handle this process, this should be treated as a bug report imho.

Communicating this as  "workin as intended" is not helpful. There is NO use case where a user wants to play the proxy file for a video asset at another framerate than the original video asset, so any setting made in "Interpret Footage" should trancend to the proxy.

If you can come up with one single scenario where this behaviour is desired, i am very curious to hear it.

I dont know if you are a video professional an have dealt with format conversion, using Speed / Duration to mitigate the behaviour can only be considered an inferior quality workaround and does not solve the real problem. I am not using Interprete Footage to intentionally change the speed of the File, i am merely conforming a 29.97fps video file without creating interpolation artifacts. That is a standard procedure and especially when not using sync sound, the best way to handle mixed frame rate material since full frames stay full frames, without blending ot interpolatipon.

[R Neil Haugen]

The engineers have stated over and over that Speed/Duration is the tool built for changing footage to another speed. That's what has been listed for doing this work for some time.

It's confusing as they have the two speed changing processes, but they don't work nearly the same and both have issues when used not what they were designed for.

Neil

[tinkthank av berlin]

Ok, so i am all ears: how does Speed / Duration CONFORM a files FRAMERATE from 29.97 to 25. I dont want to change the SPEED of the file, i want a single full frame being one single full frame, disregarding audio-sync and overall length of the original asset, which are not important in my use case.

I have done a fair share of format conversion for documentary movies, getting 29.97fps footage into 25fps movies, so i think i might have some insight into the subject, but i am happy to learn that i completely misunderstood the matter fot the last 20 years.

[tinkthank av berlin]

Comforming Framerate != Converting Framerate

[R Neil Haugen]

"I have some footage which is a 29.97 fps video (shot on DJI Osmo Pocket 2 / 8x Slowmo) which i (through "interpret footage") conformed to 25fps, to fit my 25fps project / timeline. I rendered proxies for the DJI clips"

What was the framerate of the camera shooting that "8x slomo" ... and when brought initially into Premiere, did it see that as 29.97, or as something else?

Neil

[tinkthank av berlin]

https://www.newsshooter.com/2020/10/29/dji-pocket-2-review/

Quote:
"The Pocket 2 doesn’t tell you anywhere what the actual frame rate is. All you get is a little icon that says 1080 4x or 8x. The video that is captured is 120fps or 240fps in a 29.97p file, regardless of what frame rate you try to set. This means it is already slowed down and you don’t need to conform it later on. The max bitrate when recording 120 or 240fps slow motion was just over 20Mb/s."

[R Neil Haugen]

I'm asking here just to understand what's been going on. Did you try simply putting the clips on a 29.97 timeline before interpreting them? And if so, what was the result?

Neil

[tinkthank av berlin]

I imported 29.97fps clip, went to "interpret footage" conformed it to 25fps and cut it into the 25fps sequence. Somewhere along the way I created proxies for the entire project, that's when the problems started.

It's a slow-mo horizontal travelling shot, these are especially prone to show motion jitter if NLE try to do framerates conversion by blending frames etc, so in this specific case framerate conform is the way how to handle the fps mismatch between footage and sequence imo. 

[R Neil Haugen]

Have you simply dropped the clip onto a 29.97 timeline without interpreting it first?

Neil

[tinkthank av berlin]

Yes, i have, in this project and a lot of others before.

Just for the sake of enlightenment, see for yourself:

https://files.tinkthank.de/s/eTiocotpawHGJDj

25fps-conform_on_25fps.mp4
is the 29.97fps clip conformed to 25fps and then edited to a 25fps timeline

29-97fps_on_25fps.mp4

is the 29.97fps clip droppd to 25fps timeline, letting premier do the framerate conversion

I am sure you can see the difference

I understand that you may think the framerate conversion that Adobe Premiere does is really great. It is not. 

I have dealt with this stuff a lot and there is NO NLE on the Planet that does perfect framerate conversion. Its physically not possible to squeeze 29.97 frames into 25 frames without causing any motion jitter.

[Warren Heaton]

Oh, you're doing a conform.

I'd generate a new 25fps Full Resolution file and then create a Proxy from that.

[tinkthank av berlin]

Yes I want to conform a 29.97 file to 25fps, and still be able to use it with proxies attached, without transcoding the clip or leaving premiere for it. 

In fact I could just edit the mp4 metadata and change the framerate of the clip to 25fps. There are several workarounds to this issue but I chose to report a bug in Premiere. 

It IS A BUG and not "intended behaviour".

Attributes changed through "interpret footage" - like framerate - should be changed on the attached proxies as well.

My gosh is this community always so hard to convince that not everything Premiere does makes sense... I didn't even start the discussion about "Merged Clips" yet or it would knives out I guess.

[R Neil Haugen]

I think many of us tend to be pretty practical, really. Whatever gets the job done is the first concern. As this forum is user-to-user help. And whether or not it makes sense to any of us users, well ... what works ... works.

And of course, this isn't the bug reporting place for Adobe ... that's their Premiere Pro UserVoice system.

Neil

[tinkthank av berlin]

Uservoice is for feature requests and and enhancement requests, isn't it?

[R Neil Haugen]

Partially,  because it is as stated their input portal to the engineers. For all input. Requests as well as bugs.

This forum is not a place to communicate to the devs. We aren't staffers.

Neil

[Warren Heaton]

Is the MP4 all i-frame?

If not, I would avoid on-the-fly frame rate changes.

[tinkthank av berlin]

Well, that's not the problem here.

The full resolution file has no problem playing in the conformed framerat, in fact it's just metadata in the mp4 header. 

The proxy's are the problem.

[R Neil Haugen]

How and when in the process did you create the proxies?

Neil

[Rustic Media]

Having same issue in Premiere 22.5.0.

Project framerate 23.976 (A-Roll OCF acquired in 23.976. B-Roll OCF acqured in 59.94fps)

Attach Proxies (matching fps respective to OCF).

Interpret offspeed 59.95fps footage to 23.976fps.

With Proxy Toggled On, playback in Source and Program do not correspond to OCF.

This is a BUG in 22.5.0 - have used this workflow successfully in previous versions.

Interpreting offspeed footage at the Clip level in Project Panel to conform to a common fps should not impact how the Proxies are read in Source or Sequence.