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MislavM
MislavM
Participant
December 29, 2022
Question

Premiere & AE color issue! Please help!

  • December 29, 2022
  • 3 replies
  • 2081 views

I have an iMac Pro and Ventura macos installed together with Premiere pro 22 and 23, same as After effects. 

Every footage I import to programs gets color changed, it gets saturated and darker or brighter. Sometimes it stays flat since its shoot in CLOG but only until I move a mouse pointer. iPhone footage gets destroyed totally when it comes to color. I tried all the "fix recommendations/solutions" from rec709, color management, etc and nothing works. I even reinstalled macos and adobe cloud apps, but premiere and after effect still change color of the footage. 
Premiere 22 changes color, but when exported it looks like an original file, while Premiere 23 changes color of the footage as well, but when exported it stays like that even though I didnt apply any color correction myself. 

Please help because I dont know what elese to try. I've read all the topics on that subject and tried everything, nothing works. 

Thanks,

 

Mislav

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3 replies

madebysixteen
madebysixteen
Participating Frequently
August 16, 2024

I made a video on how to fix the problem. https://youtu.be/QirnkZA0ZUY You can also check out the screencap that's attached. It's in Lumetri Settings under Project > Viewer Gamma. For After Effects, I prefer Apple RGB, which you get to using the RGB circles in the bottom of the Composition window - screenshots below. 

madebysixteen
madebysixteen
Participating Frequently
August 16, 2024

Also I get better results in After Effects when I use Export > Add to Render Queue and render straight out of AE instead of sending to Media Encoder. For PP, Media Encoder works great for me... 

    R Neil Haugen
    R Neil Haugen
    Legend
    December 29, 2022

    Why are you setting the Display profile to P3? That is a much larger space than the sRGB space required for correct Rec.709 work.

     

    And as noted ... as far as I've ever heard, you cannot expect to match a Rec.709 image inside Premiere to a QuickTime player image on a Mac. The Qt player doesn't use the same gamma, it is not possible to show identical images.

     

    VLC player and Firefox are at times useful to see what a more Rec.709 compliant image will look like on a Mac, as they don't allow ColorSync to control color.

     

    Neil

    Everyone's mileage always varies ...
    MislavM
    MislavMAuthor
    Participant
    December 29, 2022

    P3 was the only profile that made it looks as close as possible to the original. If I choose the iMac standard profile, the difference between the QuickTime and AF footage is bigger. 

     

    As for matching the Rec.709 image inside the Premiere to Quicktime player, It worked before with out any issue, plus the iPhone footage always looked as it was on the iPhone. 

     

    Any thoughts on Premiere showing flat footage until I move the cursor? 

     

    I have never had an issue with premiere before, and everything worked great, but now with the PR 22 and Ventura mac OS, everything changed and I can't rely on it anymore because of the footage that Premiere shows at the end totally different from the exported one. 

     

    Still confused,... 

     

    R Neil Haugen
    R Neil Haugen
    Legend
    December 29, 2022

    How did you determine ... "original"?

     

    If you did by say what it looks like in the Qt player ... on any platrform ... you will not be assured of a correct display of your image. No colorist ever ... ever ... ever!!!! ... accepts a video player as an "accurate" view of an image. (There is one exception I'll explain below.)

     

    One sets up a controlled environment. A known environment ... with a properly calibrated monitor, and a known system for getting the image to that monitor. Pro colorists (nearly always) use a breakout device from either AJA or BlackMagic to get the signal from the computer to a special monitor. Called a "grade 1 reference monitor" ... which may well take SDI connections rather than Displayport or HDMI.

     

    And use a calibration and profiling software/puck package to probably both check the monitor's behavior and provide a corrective LUT to store in the breakout device or the monitor's LUT storage (reference monitors nearly all can do that) to ensure that image is correct.

     

    I don't have that complete a system ... but my reference monitor is at least both calibrated with a software/hardware puck system, and then profiled ... meaning I ran ColourSpace coupled with Resolve (for generating color patches on-screen) to create a set of charts profiling exactly how my monitor is displaying the image.

     

    And I do that every so often. And keep a tight, usable profile.

     

    Premiere, with the Display Color Management option turned on, will give you a more accurate view of that image than Qt player. Period.

     

    Now ... for the exception ... some of the upper iPads, when you go through and properly change the settings, can be set to give a pretty decent Rec.709 image. But you need to know how to set them up correctly. I know colorists who "have a stack" of properly set iPads they check out to their clients for color perusal.

     

    And tell their clients that no other device is to be used to give the colorist feedback on image quality. Only that specially setup iPad, or the client monitor in the colorist's suite. Period.

     

    Neil

    Everyone's mileage always varies ...
    R Neil Haugen
    R Neil Haugen
    Legend
    December 29, 2022

    First, are you working with Rec.709 sequences? "Standard" video? If so, make sure that Ae has color management settings for Rec.709/sRGB gamma 2.4.

     

    Second, definitely use the Preferences option for Display Color Management, as that tells Premiere not to assume your system is showing correct Rec.709/sRGB images on the monitor, and therefore to check the ICC profile and remap the image accordingly.

     

    That option is useful for most users, but necessary on Mac's due to Apple's incorrect color management for Rec.709 video files. It doesn't fix the Mac odd gamma use, but it does fix that within Pr so at least within Pr you are seeing a correct file.

     

    Third ... as I mentioned, Apple uses a gamma of 1.96 with Rec.709 media ... the full standards require display at 2.4 (2.2 in "bright room" working environment). So when Pr works at proper Rec.709 settings, QuickTime Player, Chrome and Safari browsers will show that exported file as too light in the shadows.

     

    It is the same file, that will look correct when played on Rec.709 compliant screens ... like all professiona b-cast setups and many PCs. It is just displayed wrong on the Macs. If you make it darker so it looks "correct" to you on that Mac, on my PC the shadows will be crushed black. And it will be way over-saturated.

     

    All professionally produced media you watch on that rig is bog-standard Rec.709 ... and your system is showing it with exactly the same difference between on your system and a Rec.709 compliant system as what you see between Pr and Qt player.

     

    Simply put, your Mac shows b--cast media with the same lightened shadows (compared to my b-cast compliant setup) that you see between Pr and Qt player.

     

    So ... have you realized all b-cast/movie stuff you've watched on that computer is 'too light' in the shadows?

     

    Some recent Macs do seem to have some settings that help get around this. But it's simple physics ... you can't take a file designed for 2.4 display gamma, show it at 1.96, and get the same view.

     

    iPhone Footage within Premiere Pro 23.x

     

    Most iPhones are set to shoot in HLG color space, a form of HDR. Sadly, at this point, HDR is still the Wild Wild West ... quite literally. Many screens do now show it at all, and those that do, are all over the place with what they do with it.

     

    I work for/with/teach pro colorists, some of whom were the earliest adopters of full certified DolbyVision for b-cast/streaming. And were hired by Dolby Labs to produce Dolby's training materials for pro colorists doing DV HDR. Yet most colorists still have not delivered a single paid HDR job.

     

    Very few consumer monitors do a decent job of any HDR, the Mac screens are some of the better. But still ... there is always a problem with ABL, the auto brightness limiter that protects the screens from pixel burn-in.

     

    No consumer screen allows you to fully turn that off, and when you are 'grading' in HDR, and pause the screen for a bit to work a section ... within 30 seconds or so that monitor will slowly start to dim down a ways. You normally can't see it, but it does ... and that plays havoc with trying to get a consistent look out. So you need to do some work, then play the section and see if you need to scrap & redo.

     

    So ... it's far easier to work in SDR, standard dynamic range ... Rec.709. And set the iPhone to Rec.709 for video, not HLG.

     

    Now ... working with HLG files in Pr, using them on a Rec.709 timeline ...

    • Select one or more files in a bin
    • Right/click/Modify/Interpret Footage
    • Go to the bottom Color Management settings, set Override-To option to Rec.709
    • On your Timeline panel, go to the Sequence/Sequence Settings menu, set CM working space to Rec.709
    • When exporting, use ONLY presets that do NOT have HLG or PQ in the preset name.

     

    Neil

    Everyone's mileage always varies ...
    MislavM
    MislavMAuthor
    Participant
    December 29, 2022

    Hi Neil, 

     

    First of all, thanks for such a fast reply. 

     

    I followed as you wrote and here are the results: Please see attached photos. 

    In the AE I've changed project settings to Rec 709 2.4 gamma, and Display color profile to P3D65 gamma 2.4 and the footage looks almost similar. Please see attached photo. 

     

    As for PR I've turned on Display color management and changed the Display color profile to P3D65 gamma 2.4, with that and everything in rec709 there is a still big difference between the QuickTime clip and the one in the PR preview. 

     

    As for the iPhone footage in PR, I've turned on Display color management and changed the Display color profile to P3D65 gamma 2.4 and overridden to rec709. As you can see the comparison between the quick time footage and the PR preview is still huge. Please see attached photos. 

     

    And still not sure why the footage looks flat in PR until I move the cursor. Please see the movie attached.  

     

    Everything I've watched on this computer was totally normal, with no brightness or color saturation issues. except for the PR and AE. 

     

    Thanks, 

     

    Mislav

     

     

     

     

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