Premiere Pro 2022 buggy with Tangent Wave 2

[Media Mogul]

Hi, I've updated from 2021(15.4.3) to 2022 (22.2) and now I'm getting frequent crashes (program unresponsive, spinning blue circle). 

It appears connected to our Tangent Wave 2 control surface for colour grading. 
If I disconnect the Wave 2 control surfave and use the Lumetri Colour panel, it's fine. 

When I have the Wave 2 connected, it works for a while then will crash. 

I saw a weird bug on one clip where each adjustment on the Wave 2 would create a new Lumetri effect in the effects control panel. 

[Sumeet Kumar Choubey]

Hi Media Mogul,

We're sorry to hear about this. Have you tried installing the latest version of Tangent Hub & checked if it's working properly?

Thanks,

Sumeet

[Sebastian Harnack iMac]

Hi. 

I'm working with the WAVE2 - and it's really good working... AS LONG AS you only have one Lumetri effect on a clip. As soon as you have more, the WAVE2 only changes the one, which is lowest in the list. Even if you select e.g. the first LumetriEffect in the Lumetri-Panel-Dropdown-List, my WAVE2 keeps changeing the lowest one. And as I'm often working with stacked Luemtris, this is really a bug to deal with...

[TangentWave]

Hi Sebastian
Unfortunately, the bug you describe has been in Premiere since 2017! You'll find a thread about this here - incorrectly marked as Solved!
Solved: Multiple Lumetri Layers in Premiere - Adobe Support Community - 9504121
As Neil says in that thread, the bug affects all physical panels, not just panels from Tangent.
If you could maybe post your message to that thread then there's an outside chance that it will revive interest and someone at Adobe may take notice. 

[R Neil Haugen]

As Tangent notes, that's been the case since 2017, it's  .... " ... " annoying, I and other's have continually begged for a fix.

And been rebuffed.

Glad someone else is raising this AGAIN, as the Tangent tools, whether Elements, Ripple (I have both), or Wave, the Monogram, and others, are ALL hamstrung by that most annoying bug.

Neil

[R Neil Haugen]

I'm running both a full Elements and a Ripple, both working fine.

Make sure you're on the latest Hub as Sumeet suggested. Also, in the Control Surface options for Add, take the second Tanget option, which would be the Extended one as it loads.

Neil

[Guest]

So there are no bugs in Tangent ripple? I think of buying it again - I regret having sold it years ago..

[R Neil Haugen]

None whatever.

Tangent has expanded the options and functions for working within Premiere also. Limiting a Ripple, Wave, or Elements panel in Premiere to color use is near criminal to my mind. Certainly qualifies as "certifiable" ... !

You can map them to do any resizing/positioning/rotating work, of any screen element. Whether rotating a video track, a graphics element, whatever.

You can use them for audio mixing.

Replace your mouse by using the balls as a trackball for the mouse cursor, the buttons for mouse buttons. Have one at low resolution for fast movement, one at high for precise small movements.

All sorts of things. Amazing production tools.

And in color ... mix and match panels so at any one time, you're controlling the things you want grouped together.

My "color wheels" mapping for my Elements panel has the three wheels/rings/button unit mapped normally. But my 12 buttons on the Kb section have most of the Basic tab controls along with the Creative tab's Saturation and the ... um ... low-sat tool, forgot the flipping name. I just use the panel while looking at scopes or image, without looking at it or the program itself ...  😉

And while on the Wheels setting for my Elements, I can tap the Alternate button, and the left is the Creative Tab's Shadow Tint, right is Highlight Tint, and right ring is the pivot slider between them. I do a lot of my WB and shadow cast corrections that way.

On the Ripple, which I normally use with the laptop, I also "do my own thang" all over the unit. Such as running many controls in a 'joined' manner.

My "Basic Tab mapping has Exposure as the vertical motion of the left ball, Contrast as the right motion of that ball. With one finger I'm working both, and with or against each other.

The right ball is Whites (v) and Highlights (h). The middle ball is chroma contrast ... Sat (v) and that low-sat control (h).

Tap Alternate ... left ball is Shadow Tint, right is Highlight Tint, middle is Basic tab WB.

That's just the type of thing I do. And the Elements mapping for Basic is similar to my Ripple mapping.

The things are incredibly fast and easy to use. I HATE when I don't have one available, which though rare, does happen.

And now that they have an amazing ability to use specialized software they provide to allow for USER control of the panels within Resolve, the Elements and Ripples work both apps under user control. Which I am beyond pleased with. 

Unfortunately, the Waves don't work with the alternate software in Resolve ... but then I don't have one anyway.

[Guest]

Thanks Neil! I was desparately waiting for your answer and will buy it NOW. 😉 As I need it on wednesday to grade 30 minutes in Lumetri. 🙂

I bought mine in 2017 and sold it as I had to switch to avid and ripple wasnt supported, but much has changed. 🙂  

[Guest]

So far they Tangent Ripple has been working great. Its a pity that you cannot remove som "Modes" for Premiere. I would love to remove all modes exept Basic and Wheels so I could move more quickly.. but then I could configure ONE custom mode as you said to be able to control Basic and Wheel panels.

[R Neil Haugen]

Check in with Tangent ... Andy and Chris both have been pretty awesome at responding to questions, and helping to figure stuff out. With the one proviso ... you know about engineer mental approach, right?   😉

So at times we need to be quite specific about what we don't understand and about where we want to 'be' ... and again, they are very helpful. They're across the pond to jolly old England ... so sometimes it is the next day before the email comes back. But I have enjoyed working with them on several projects.

[TangentWave]

Hi Peter. Thanks for returning to using a Ripple panel after some time away.

As Neil said we'd be happy to consider your request. Allowing "built-in" Modes to be hidden is something which is already on our list of features to add. But it would be useful to chat with you some more about your thoughts on this to ensure that we understand your use case fully. Feel free to drop us a PM and we can then discuss in more depth.

[Guest]

Thanks for your offer! It would be great if you could add the feature to hide modes in the tangent mapper.

As I said I just received the panel and use it only for colour-grading (no audio mixing so far).

For that I am relying on the "basic correction" tab in premiere for luma control because I have more control over all the brightness levels with controls for blacks/shadows/exposure/highlights/whites. 

And then I try to correct colours scene based with an adjustment layer and the colour wheels tab, so I can control the colours in shadows/midtones/highlights independently. (Basic correction has two one colour sliders for the whole luma range.) 

To achieve this I am constantly switching between Basic correction and Colour wheels on the tangent ripple but as I cannot hide some modes I constantly have to cycle through Editing/Creative/Curves/HSL/Vignette/Audio/Effects - modes I never use. It would be fantastic if I could just hide them and switch only between basic and wheels with the touch of a button on the ripple.

(I send you the message as a PM as well)

[TangentWave]

We'll take a look at this for sure.
Meanwhile, an idea would be to use the Mapper to program the B button on the Ripple panel to switch back and forth between the two Modes in which you're interested rather than step through all the Modes.
When in Basic Mode the button would be programmed to switch to Wheels Mode and vice versa.
You would need to change the "Mappings Apply To" function to be "Current Mode" to enable this.
Here's some screenshots to let you see what I mean.

[Guest]

This sounds great, thanks! I will try it tomorrow!

[Guest]

By the way is there any chance to activate a script on the ripple to copy the lumetri correction from the previous clip and replace it on the activated clip? Adobe doesnt seem capable to add this feature as a shortcut.

[TangentWave]

I was trying to think of a way to copy corrections from a previous clip by using our Warp Engine functionality (via mouse moves and clicks) but it seems that you need to click on both the previous and current clips and of course these move around in the timeline. You will be far more familiar with the process than I so maybe you can think of a way to use Warp Engine to add this function.

We've just posted a video which runs through the process of programming a Warp for the Offset Colour Wheel in Resolve but the process will be much the same to add functions to Premiere:

Warp Engine for Element and Resolve Tutorial

 

[Guest]

Thanks a lot for your effort!! 🙂 I think with the mouse alone this will be impossible. Its rather a combination of shortcuts like these:

Select Previous Clip	Cmd Up
Copy	Cmd C
Select Next Clip	Cmd Down
Paste Attributes	Optn Cmd V

But you have to be sure everytime that not ALL attributes are selected, you always have to select only the lumetri effect. And then you have to replace the existing lumetri effect on the clip - so maybe deleting the existing lumetri first. Otherwise you have two instances of the same effect and it gets very complicated.. All in all I think adobe should come up with a solution. 

Right now I am rather thinking of roundtripping or even switching to resolve just for the ability to grade quickly. (and for lots of necessary effect like denoise and deflicker - I just had to rerender some clips with those effects and reconnect them in premiere).. so coming from FCPx a few months ago and now leaving will again be a lot of work but I have been using resolve some years ago, so will be fine.

Luckily tangent ripple works perfectly there as well. 🙂

[Guest]

BTW: Maybe the Warp Engine can help with auto colour instead? There should be an ease way to toggle auto color and then resetting temperature and tint so it only affects exposure. This would be a great starting point for the grade.

[TangentWave]

I hear what you're saying. It would certainly be more satisfactory for Adobe to add this as a feature rather than having to work around with the panels. 
You can also create keypress sequences in the Warp Engine, it's not restricted to mouse moves and clicks. So you could record the keypress sequence you show above into a macro (script) and assign to a button on the panel. However, with the Ripple panel, you are of course rather restricted to having only a very few buttons!
Hint - you can assign any Warp Script to the ball reset buttons if you so wish, which you could never do with basic keyboard shortcuts.
It sounds like you could create a Warp Script to achieve your Auto Colour sequence too.

[R Neil Haugen]

Could one use the VS "version" of Tangent's software, using a tablet, to create a virtual 'Bt' button section from the Elements set?

My Ripple is buried right now due to our move last year, or I'd pop it into my laptop and test myself.

[TangentWave]

Thanks Neil. You absolutely could. The element-Vs app happily co-exists with physical panels.
I often suggest this solution myself but on this occasion forgot!
- Andy

[Guest]

Unfortunately this doesnt solve all issues: When a colour correction panel is disabled (basic or wheels for example) or a clip is deselected, the mode selector automatically switches to editing mode.

I could try to apply my basic correction to the editing mode and throw out the basic mode.. maybe this helps.

[Guest]

One question about the navigation I cannot find in the manual. How do I switch between Jog and Map mode the control wheel?

[R Neil Haugen]

Peter, as Andy has confirmed, you can use a tablet in "VS" mode in the Tangent system ... and set it to any panel of an Elements 'board'. So ... you can set it to give you say the 12 buttons of the Bt section of an Elements panel. Sitting next to the Ripple, that's a huge production boost.