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Prores RAW Workflow In Master Panel

Forum|Forum|5 years ago
November 11, 2020
7 replies
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Hello, I have recently been importing Prores Raw into PPCC (build 51). Am I to understand that the master panel (when editing the Prore RAW) is where we are to take advantage of the flexibility of the the RAW container and not the video clip tab?

I guess to be more specific, I'm wondering if editing in the video clip tab vs the master tab will produce any different results. Im under the impression that all the beneficial information of the RAW container is in the Master Tab and there you have the flexible 12 bit information as well as converting to a codec. So once I leave the master tab and jump back into the video clip tab to edit am I only able to edit the limited information that the codec has as oppose to being able to edit the 12 bit RAW in the Master Tab?

Also is there any literature on the workflow of the master tab when dealing with Prores RAW?

I hope this is not confusing to the reader. Thank you for your help in advance.

Editing

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Correct answer R Neil Haugen

It's an easy misunderstanding. There is no bit depth difference between the Master clip tab and the normal sequence clip tab.

The Master Clip tab deals with the "master clip" properties, that are applied as a "master" to that clip anywhere in the project. And for complex media with metadata-driven options like the ProRes RAW, BMRAW, ArriRAW, and Red r3d files, some others, there will be options based on the media metadata. Those options are always controlled from the Master Clip tab.

You can even say add a Lumetri effect to a clip in the Master Clip tab, and that will be applied to all uses of that clip or sections of it in the project.

Whether you make changes via the Master Clip tab or the normal sequence tab has no other effect. Premiere always translates any clip directly into 32 bit float for all computational changes, so bit depth & such are not affected. Everything is processed at the bit depth of the clip involved.

Neil

S

Stas5C3A

Participating Frequently

when will the white balance adjustment be made for prores raw? Very much waiting) thank you)

R Neil Haugen

Legend

It's been a number of weeks since I've worked with any Pr-RAW. They've updated the app once or maybe twice since, so I don't know if there's anything more in the Pr-RAW Source (used to be called Master) settings other than the exposure slider they started with.

My current understanding is the WB and such you set still with Lumetri. Which can be done while working with the Source tab on a sequence so it is applied to any use of any section of that clip in the project ... or in the 'regular' clip tab where it's only applied to that use of that clip on that sequence.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

M

Mafic Ocean

Participant

This is a very informative thread, thank you for the detailed responses. I have a sub-question regarding this same topic, thought it best to continue this thread as opposed to starting a new one.

Is it possible to keyframe / automate the exposure slider within the Master Clip tab to adjust different sections of the clip?

I have a 90 second one-shot Clip filmed in Pr-RAW which explores different rooms with drastically different lighting so I am attempting to automate the exposure of the clip within the Master tab of the clip. While I am able to add keyframes and see the adjustments reflected on slider itself, it doesn't appear to adjust the actual exposure of the footage at all. Doing the same automation on a Lumetri exposure slider gives me the desired functionality, but after reading this thread, it seems this is less than ideal because the sliders perform different calculations. This will likely work for my current purpose, but I'd like to understand if it's possible for future productions.

I am working in Premiere Pro 2021 V15.4.1 (Build 6) on a 2018 Macbook Pro running OS X Mojave 10.14.6. Maybe Premiere Pro 2022 has this functionality? If so, I would be willing to update my OS, but didn't want to go through the hassle for nothing.

As an aside, my associate works mainly in After Effects and he mentioned there is no option for keyframing the RAW exposure of the footage (running Mojave 10.14.6 as well).

Thanks for any insight, much appreciated.

S

Stas5C3A

Participating Frequently

so I can leave rec. 709 on the source material in the source window and switch in the sequence setting working color space to rec. 709, rec. 2100HLG/PQ. The Prores Raw input materials will adjust to the sequence settings. Is that so?

R Neil Haugen

Legend

The program will transform the media from to source into the working space of the sequence as set. It's not a clip, it's a mathematical transform operation.

The Program monitor, as it's set and locked into Rec.709, will clip data if you are working in wider gamut/dynamic range sequences unfortunately. But that's the display setup, not the sequence working setup involved.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

S

Stas5C3A

Participating Frequently

Do I need to convert Prores Raw HQ to LOG? and then in rec. 709 to save all the color data or is it not required?

R Neil Haugen

Legend

ProRes RAW shouldn't need to go to a log format then convert to Rec.709 ... just go direct to Rec.709. When going from a raw form to either a 2020/2100 space/gamut or Rec.709, the transforms are done to the new space directly.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

S

Stas5C3A

Participating Frequently

Windows can "see" my monitor as HDR and therefore allows me to set this monitor to HDR in the Windows Display Settings dialog. This I installed and it works.1) Can I now work with HDR in Premier? Or is it not fully functional? 2) If I work in rec. 709, then I set color space-rec. 709 in the Source window of the source material and evaluate it directly, do I understand correctly?3) And if I work in sequence-color space 2100 PQ, what to choose on the sorce screen? 4) Do I need to translate Prores Raw on the Source color space screen to Log, to preserve the dynamic range? I would appreciate your response)

R Neil Haugen

Legend

Maybe. Sort of.

It's a work in process now. If Windows is set to work a monitor in HDR and you use Mercury Transmit to send the monitor an image ... you're probably mostly ok.

Understand the Program monitor will still be showing Rec.709.

Your sequence settings should be either 2100 in PQ or HLG, the scopes should be in the same color space AND set to HDR.

And in your Project settings, you should have white set to 203.

Exporting is something you need to do with their chart as you have to have everything set correctly.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

R Neil Haugen

Legend

Premiere will do a transform on the ProRes RAW file to the Rec.709 space, not clip to it. So all the data is there. If you're working in SDR, producing normal video (which is still over 90% of all video) then the Rec.709 working space is what you will want to use.

Working in HDR is still difficult to do in Premiere as the Program Monitor is only capable of Rec.709. So to see what you're working with you need a breakout device ... an i/o LUT box or card from BlackMagic or AJA ... to get an HDR signal out of Premiere without the OS or GPU messing with it, and deliver it to an actual HDR monitor.

The public beta does allow one to work with an HDR monitor within Windows if Windows can 'see' the monitor as HDR and so allow you to set that monitor to HDR in the Windows Display Settings dialog.

If you are working in HDR, and especially if you can get a working HDR monitor connected, then your timeline working space would be Rec.2100 in either PQ or HLG depending on your needs.

For exporting in HDR, they have a very specific chart of the format/codecs possible to export in HDR, and there's a lot of very specific settings you need to set properly.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

S

Stas5C3A

Participating Frequently

How to work with Prores Raw? what color space to choose to save the maximum color information, I understand on the master tab, it is desirable to translate to LOG? because rec. 709 is a limited space, or is it not necessary ? ( I shoot on I cam e2s6+atomos ninja 5) What to translate if I work in HDR?

R Neil HaugenCorrect answer

Legend

It's an easy misunderstanding. There is no bit depth difference between the Master clip tab and the normal sequence clip tab.

The Master Clip tab deals with the "master clip" properties, that are applied as a "master" to that clip anywhere in the project. And for complex media with metadata-driven options like the ProRes RAW, BMRAW, ArriRAW, and Red r3d files, some others, there will be options based on the media metadata. Those options are always controlled from the Master Clip tab.

You can even say add a Lumetri effect to a clip in the Master Clip tab, and that will be applied to all uses of that clip or sections of it in the project.

Whether you make changes via the Master Clip tab or the normal sequence tab has no other effect. Premiere always translates any clip directly into 32 bit float for all computational changes, so bit depth & such are not affected. Everything is processed at the bit depth of the clip involved.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

Vid HeadzAuthor

Participating Frequently

Awesome 👌! Thank you for the response it is greatly appreciated. However I did notice a little difference in adjusting exposure in the Lumetri Color as oppose to the exposure in the Master Tab. Is there a difference there or just in mind head sort of speak, lol! When looking at color for long periods of time, sometimes it can play tricks on you.

So this will bring me to a final question. What is the intended purpose of the Master Tab? Besides the ability to convert codecs for RAW. By reading your response above I get the impression that the Master Tab allows me to apply adjustments to that clip and any where I use that clip those adjustments will be appended to that clip without having to redo the same Lumetri Color for the same clip if you wanted to use it else where in the project.

R Neil Haugen

Legend

The ProRes Raw exposure slider is its own thing, built for that media, and is very differently coded from the Adobe Lumetri panel. Different intents also.

The Master Clip tab is where you set universal characterstics across the project for that clip. So yes, if you apply Lumetri to a clip via Master Clip tab, then all uses of that clip in the project will have that setting set applied. It's very useful for things like multicamera, as you can correct each camera in Master Clip, and change the entire sequence use of that clip.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

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