Shoot 29.97i or convert for deliverable?

Forum|Forum|2 years ago
October 2, 2023
4 replies
1634 views

I have a proposed upcoming project under early discussions. It's for a non-profit, where the more likely destination is client web use. But, if possible, it would be pitched to public TV.

Local public uses NPB standards, everything in 29.97i drop-frame. Of course that's 59.94.

That would not be my primary choice to shoot in. But I know a workable practice has been shoot 24p, edit, then take to Ae and do 3:2 pull-down.

Is that still the best thing, other than shooting in interlaced?

This topic has been closed for replies.

R Neil HaugenAuthor

Legend

Thanks for those responding ... but perhaps I'd also like @Jarle Leirpoll , @Warren Heaton10841144 , and @Michael Grenadier to opine? I do like a range of experienced thoughts. The more the merrier ...

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

M

Michael Grenadier

Legend

Just finished a pbs cutdown. I was told to deliver 29.97, but the piece was mastered as 24p Gonna see if 24p will be accepted... I've mentioned this to the client, but as usual, radio silence. Not sure what the best way to add pulldown to make it 29.97... If I remember correctly not a simple process to get the best quality, bwdik...

Remote Index

In my understanding, 24p is not 24 fps. it's 23.976. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/24p. Unfortunately these terms are often used improperly... and there is some ambiguity about this as you can see in this wikipedia article... And you'll see 29.97 fps called 30 fps, improperly in my opinion. Neil, in his initial post clearly is talking about 23.976. But it's always important to be clear in how you use the terms and using 24p (and adding 23.976 to the description) can not hurt.

Interesting.

I think at best "24p" is ambiguous as to frame rates (ie. used to refer to both 23.976fps and 24fps).

First I will note that the wikipedia page seems quite dated. (example: "Some 24p productions, especially those made only for NTSC TV and video distribution" ... using NTSC as a foundation misses a lot in 2023.) Premiere Pro (and other NLEs) are straddling a lot of standards, but some good references would be ATSC and DCI which encompass broadcast and theatrical in the U.S. and beyond.

It's true that I assumed 24fps is indicated by the "24p" formulation - which is presumptuous since he has only indicated progressive frames but not frame rate. But by such logic I must assume that "24p" does not communicate any frame rate information at all (or rather, only narrows it to either 23.976fps or 24fps).

It's also true that there's a lot of informal shorthand re: 24 vs 23.976 and 30 vs 29.97 frame rates ... but in a forum post about mastering and frame rate / format conversions, it's safe to assume that precision is necessary. (I don't see how you can make meaningful recommendations or decisions otherwise.) Thus my interpretation of Neil's post, your post and careful qualifer on Warren's (very useful) AE instructions.

I'll add that later formulations of formats (example: 1080p24, 1080p23.98) were clearer in communicating frame rates and also suggested an interpretation of the (I believe etymologically earlier) '24p' which I seem to have taken on. (In case it's unclear, 1080p24 unambiguously communicates 24fps).

"Neil, in his initial post clearly is talking about 23.976."

I did not interpret it that way - nor would I with any such correspondence. This was reinforced by his references to 29.97, 59.94, an to pull down (though again 'pull down' has been widely adopted in a sloppy way as well).

R.

Remote Index

Hello R Neil Haugen,

I think your proposed workflow is best and will give you most long term flexibility.

I suggest shooting 23.98p or 29.97p and doing a conversion at the end or their specific delivery requirements. (I haven't used AE to do conversions before.)

R.