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Inspiring
August 9, 2017
Question

Why does Windows Media Player show better blacks in my footage than Premiere Pro?

  • August 9, 2017
  • 3 replies
  • 1459 views

This is a complex question to pose so it is possible my title is not detailed enough to convey my specific concern.

I have 2 Canon XF 305's connected over SDI to my PC via a Matrox card.

I changed the Camera Picture profile to set my black pedestal and black gamma to -10 as lumetri has been showing me that my black backgrounds have been sitting between 0 and 10 IRE or between 0 and 26 in the RGB 0-255 when viewed through the Waveform (RGB) monitor. It is crucial that I have a pure black background, and crushing the blacks in Premiere introduces grain and colour blocking - hence attempting this solution.

I have confirmed the pedestal in camera using the Waveform display that is available on the XF 305s.

When I look at the footage in Windows Media Player the blacks look right - as in pitch black, however once I import this footage, my blacks look grey and flat.

Images for explanation (obviously screen grabs are a poor demonstration, but might help):

Premiere:

Windows Media Player:

What lumetri sees in the Premiere image:

Now my guess is that Premiere is reading the footage as RGB 16-255 however when I manually configure NVIDIA to display RGB 0-255 there is no change (and I also lose CUDA)

I have confirmed my Matrox codec settings are locked to RGB 0-255.

I know that Premiere doesn't actually have a colour space, so I am assuming forcing it to read footage in a different way is not possible.

Clip specs:

Machine specs:

     CPU

Intel Core i7 4790 @ 3.60GHz 43 °C

Haswell 22nm Technology

     RAM

32.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3 @ 664MHz (9-9-9-24)

     Motherboard

ASRock Z97 Extreme9 (CPUSocket) 48 °C

     Graphics

VW24A (1920x1080@60Hz)

VW24A (1920x1080@60Hz)

E2340 (1920x1080@60Hz)

VW24A (1920x1080@60Hz)

4095MB NVIDIA Quadro K5000 (HP) 59 °C

     Storage

238GB Samsung SSD 850 PRO 256GB (SSD) 29 °C

11178GB Intel Raid 5 Volume (SSD) 29 °C

238GB Samsung SSD 850 PRO 256GB (SSD) 24 °C

     Optical Drives

TSSTcorp BDDVDW SE-506CB USB Device

     Audio

AudioBox 44VSL Audio

This topic has been closed for replies.

3 replies

BenchTVAuthor
Inspiring
August 9, 2017

Some really great responses here but I think I have framed my question poorly.

When I look at the waveform on the Canon XF 305's the readings tell me that my black background is sitting on 0 IRE. Am I supposed to trust the lumetri values over the camera's own reporting? Especially with Neil's comment?

I am quite certain (though not completely) that I am recording the blacks the way I intended. I tested the picture profiles pretty extensively in our studio, though if the Canon waveform is untrustworthy then I will have to wait for the SmallHD monitor we ordered to come through and rebalance the cameras again.

Unfortunately, as I am shooting with the m701 Matrox codec I cannot play this footage in VLC for comparison.

As I am using vMix as my capture program for the livestream over SDI and I can see the visual feedback it gives while live mixing is much blacker than the footage appears once it is imported into Premiere. 

chrisw44157881
Inspiring
August 9, 2017

if you use vlc media player (tools-prefs-video-output-opengl video output), it will match premiere's opengl  playback exactly.

R Neil Haugen
Legend
August 9, 2017

PrPro is dead-on straight "pro" Rec 709 ... 0-255. Period. Those Lumetri scopes are showing precisely what is in that media, no matter what the monitor shows. I would trust the program monitor in PrPro a heck of a lot more than the Windows media player. Seriously.

How is your display calibrated?

The Nvidia panel's video tab should normally be set for Nvidia settings over-riding players, and the Dynamic range set to 0-255.

PrPro will do its own thing, but this way most other players are told to play nice. On some rigs this even "fixes" Quicktime player.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...
BenchTVAuthor
Inspiring
August 9, 2017

Yes I did manually set NVIDIA to control the RGB colourspace and ensured 0-255 not 16-255 was selected.

In this mode, I lost CUDA. I am also rendering a lot all the time so this was unacceptable.

R Neil Haugen
Legend
August 9, 2017

Huh ... that's an intriguing bit of data, that setting the Nvidia control panel that way dumped CUDA for you.

So I'm wondering if something is wrong with your Nvidia installation ... ? That shouldn't happen. I've suggested this to many people, and never had one with this problem resulting from it.

My guess is there's a hardware or driver installation issue, and something in your Nvdia relationship with the rest of the computer might be screwy. Lumetri is probably off a couple points, that's well within expectation. Maybe even five. But your situation sounds like there's a lot more "off" than that going on.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...