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Inspiring
July 19, 2021
Question

Working with 25fps timeline and adding videos to timeline with mixed frame rates and dimensions

  • July 19, 2021
  • 3 replies
  • 5670 views

Hey guys 

Just curious we are in the middle of a lockdown in Australia at the moment and I am creating a video collaboration for my organisation that involves having 1080p 25fps video footage but it will also involve others handing in some of their own recorded videos either from zoom, or their own mobile phones which I will overlay over the 1080 footage similar to the photo i attached in the post.(not my image btw)

 

If set my timeline to 25fps to match my video footage and I want to add these mixed frame rates, like the zoom and mobile phone video uploads will this be problematic, or is there nothing wrong with this and something everyone can just do normally. 

 

The issue i see here is if someone sends me a something from their phone that is 60fps or 30fps my understanding is that this would cause a slow motion effect or choppy, but i could be wrong? If they send me material that is lower then 25fps then this of course wont be an issue, just want to double check if what i am saying here has any merit.

 

Sorry for the noob questions too...

 

This topic has been closed for replies.

3 replies

Inspiring
July 19, 2021

In the same lockdown 🙂

All very good advice from everyone. Here's my take.

On a broadcast production using multiple frame framerates we would convert any non-25fps material to 25fps.

On a non-broadcast job (if the final program is not too long) I'd leave all material 'as is' and drop everything into your 25fps timeline.

Most of the time 60 & 30 fps material will look OK at 25fps. The worst is dropping 24fps into a 25 sequence. That, to me, always looks the worst.

Preview render your finished edit before export and watch for any 'judder'. If you are working with 'talking head' footage you are unlikely to see much wrong. Anything with camera movement might look bad. On any problem shots, right click the clip in your sequence, select 'speed/duration' and then from the 'time interpolation' drop down menu choose 'optical flow'. Preview render again and see if it looks better.

Good luck.

aspire029Author
Inspiring
July 20, 2021

@Steve Griffiths Cheers mate good tips mate

Inspiring
July 19, 2021

I mix frames rates all the time using Premiere Pro with no issues. I think all NLEs will do that and have done it for over 10 years.  

Community Expert
July 19, 2021

Hey there. Premiere is pretty good at interpolating different framerates so you can definitely mix them. I would set your sequence to be the framerate of your primary media or to your required delivery specs, which it sounds like you've done. Other framerates added directly to the sequence will not be sped up or slowed down, only that they would have frames added (duplicated) or removed depending on the framerate of the clips compared to the sequence, for example:

If you add a 60fps clip to a 30 fps sequence it will simply remove every other frame from the 60 fps media. Inversely, if you add a 30fps clip to a 60 fps sequence it will duplicate every single frame. So your sequence would be playing at 60fps but the media would still look 30fps.

 

Now, just because the clips get interpolated doesn't necessarily mean they will all look great. There are certain conversions that can be choppier than others, like a 24fps clip in a 30fps sequence will have 1 frame duplicated every 6 frames, which can add a little bit of a jitter. In some of those cases you can try changing the Frame Interpolation to something else, like Optical Flow, to see if it looks any better (or just cope with it).

 

Edit: I wanted to add that working with phone media can be a challenge for different reasons than just mixing framerates. You may be getting media that's in an HEVC codec, which can be difficult to work with, and the media will also likely be Variable Framerate, which can cause a lot of issues (audio going out of sync, render errors, playback issues). To learn more about VFR you can read some of this, which includes some transcoding solutions: https://www.reddit.com/r/VideoEditing/wiki/faq/vfr

 

Ideally you will be able to advise the various people shooting this stuff to shoot in a specific framerate (though the VFR notes will still apply. Nothing you can do about that.) But also it's best to have the phones set to Compatibility mode and not High Efficiency, and where possible to turn off HDR settings. At least on the Apple side those things are just going to give you headaches.

Participating Frequently
July 19, 2021

Just adding onto this - I've been doing lots similar work throughout the pandemic. My biggest recommendation would be to convert everything to the same framerate as the first step in your workflow (since you're based in Australia I'd think 25fps is the right answer). Ideally you'd create ProRes/Cineform clips, but since the quality is so low on the source anyway I tend to create reasonably high-quality h.264 files to work with to save on storage space.

This is definitely just my opinion though, and depending on your project & the type of footage not necessarily the right answer. By converting first you do lose the ability to play with optical flow, not to mention the obvious time-sink of converting big batches of files.
I had a project go south in the 11th hour because of VFR clips & rendering errors... so, in my opinion, even with the drawbacks I think its always worth converting.

Participating Frequently
July 19, 2021

Hopefully not breaking ToS by double-posting, but realizing I forgot one thing-
For whatever reason (I haven't tracked down a good answer), Media Encoder sometimes just doesn't play well with files created in Quicktime X or on an iPhone. I've had good luck converting those with Handbrake, instead - https://handbrake.fr/

 

I just use the Fast 1080 preset, and then dial in the settings I need (framerate, bitrate, frame size) on the next panel.