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alfredob58259664
Participant
September 23, 2018
Answered

Best Arri Mni Arriraw Premier Pro workflow

  • September 23, 2018
  • 2 replies
  • 9470 views

Hi,

I would like some advice on the best workflow when planning a shoot with alexa mini and anamorphic Cooke 2x Lenses.

I am going to edit a music video which will be shot in 2 days so I would appreciate some advise on the best camera settings for two scenarios:

1) we deliver the final master in 2.39:1 ana

2) we deliver the final master in HD (1080p)

1) If we use 2x ana lenses to deliver 2.39:1 aspect ration, the the only ArriRaw setting that make sense is 2. 39:1 2K ana (OG 3.4), or 4:3 2.8K (OG 3.4) but then I would have to crop some pixels as the latter is a 2.66:1 right?

Now if we go for this settings, then how is the correct Premier Pro workflow?

Is it to import via the raw files directly into premier pro and then go to Modify, Interpret Footage and give it a 2x squeeze? If I import the footage raw the change sequence setting to double the horizontal size nothing happen, well the frame on the program monitor get wider and the footage stay the same. Scale to frame size do  not affect the image. So I suppose the correct way is to 'interpret the footage' and give it a 2x de squeeze?

The crew is talking to have a data manager on set to get the card from the Arri to transcode the footage. What is the point in transcoding if then you want to use the raw file in premier pro for wider image manipulation range? As far as I know the arrow converter converts files in different formats but then (at least if transcoded to PreRess) the extra parameter (exposure index, white balance and tint) are lost?

Can you transcode in a non raw format and retain all the extra parameter when importing in PP?

Sorry but I am confused.

No problem to do the creative side go the editing but I need to get clear on this subjects too.

2) If our delivery goal is on HD 1080p then what is the best camera setting for the goal? and Relative PP workflow?

Thank you in advance and sorry for asking lots of questions

Alfredo

    This topic has been closed for replies.
    Correct answer chrisw44157881
    • before shooting, your dp will have to decide to go 4:3 anamorphic metadata or full opengate:
    • ProRes 4:3 2.8K records the full 4:3 sensor area (2880 x 2160) and can be used with anamorphic or spherical lenses. It offers frame rates up to 50 fps and an optional 2x anamorphic de-squeeze for the EVF and SDI monitoring paths.
    • ProRes 2.39:1 2K Ana. records a 2.39:1 standard 2K format (2048 x 858), which does not require any cropping or scaling in post. Due to the in-camera scaling the data rate is reduced, allowing recording speeds up to 120 fps.

    To compare 2.8K (2880x2160) vs. Open Gate 3424x2202 we have to keep in mind that a) if you're using the same lens when comparing these formats Open Gate offers a larger field of view - ergo you have to move your camera to get the exact same shot.

    b) Open Gate offers a greater resolution (if your lens covers the Open Gate sensor area), but with the known downsides you already mentioned: filesize, conversion from ARRIRAW to ProRes for editorial; I'd suggest shoot a test at your local rental house.

    As you have surmised, going from anamorphic to 16:9 won't be pretty for 1080p.

    Since:

    Aspect Ratio = (Horizontal Resolution / Vertical Resolution) × Pixel Aspect Ratio(anamorphic ratio)

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    -For anamorphic lenses

    quote is from arri rep.

    2944x2160 is a ProRes format with black padding left/right, the active image is 2880x2160.

    -for anamorphic sequence

    a) 4:3 2.8K with anamorphic lenses

    - set your project resolution to 2k DCP scope (2.39) 2048x858 or 4k DCP Scope (2.39)  4096x1716

    - set Input scaling preset - scale to comp width

    -------------------------------

    -for 1080p:

    2.39 would be 1920/2.39 or 803. It's always best to work in and export same AR so your text isn't offset. most people do AR 2.4 800(Bluray scope) because some codecs don't support an odd number of pixels. Or for broadcast, lay black with mask for letterbox then 803 doesn't really matter as its composited with black to 1080.

    here's a cheat sheet

    https://www.unravel.com.au/aspect-ratio-cheat-sheet

    -------------------------------

    -for proxy workflow:

    The supported workflow allows attachment of Proxies with other frame sizes & PAR (pixel aspect ratio) combinations that are divisible by the Full Res clip (for example, 1920x1080 1.0 PAR Full Res and 960x540 1.0 PAR Proxy or 1440x1080 1.33 PAR Proxy), but other parameters such as fielding, frame rate, duration, and audio channels must match. Mismatched audio channels results in warning dialogs and are not allowed.

    -for web

    Note: If you add letterboxing to a video before uploading it, the widescreen player will add vertical bars, resulting in black bars all around the video and a bad viewing experience.

    2 replies

    chrisw44157881
    chrisw44157881Correct answer
    Inspiring
    September 23, 2018
    • before shooting, your dp will have to decide to go 4:3 anamorphic metadata or full opengate:
    • ProRes 4:3 2.8K records the full 4:3 sensor area (2880 x 2160) and can be used with anamorphic or spherical lenses. It offers frame rates up to 50 fps and an optional 2x anamorphic de-squeeze for the EVF and SDI monitoring paths.
    • ProRes 2.39:1 2K Ana. records a 2.39:1 standard 2K format (2048 x 858), which does not require any cropping or scaling in post. Due to the in-camera scaling the data rate is reduced, allowing recording speeds up to 120 fps.

    To compare 2.8K (2880x2160) vs. Open Gate 3424x2202 we have to keep in mind that a) if you're using the same lens when comparing these formats Open Gate offers a larger field of view - ergo you have to move your camera to get the exact same shot.

    b) Open Gate offers a greater resolution (if your lens covers the Open Gate sensor area), but with the known downsides you already mentioned: filesize, conversion from ARRIRAW to ProRes for editorial; I'd suggest shoot a test at your local rental house.

    As you have surmised, going from anamorphic to 16:9 won't be pretty for 1080p.

    Since:

    Aspect Ratio = (Horizontal Resolution / Vertical Resolution) × Pixel Aspect Ratio(anamorphic ratio)

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------

    -For anamorphic lenses

    quote is from arri rep.

    2944x2160 is a ProRes format with black padding left/right, the active image is 2880x2160.

    -for anamorphic sequence

    a) 4:3 2.8K with anamorphic lenses

    - set your project resolution to 2k DCP scope (2.39) 2048x858 or 4k DCP Scope (2.39)  4096x1716

    - set Input scaling preset - scale to comp width

    -------------------------------

    -for 1080p:

    2.39 would be 1920/2.39 or 803. It's always best to work in and export same AR so your text isn't offset. most people do AR 2.4 800(Bluray scope) because some codecs don't support an odd number of pixels. Or for broadcast, lay black with mask for letterbox then 803 doesn't really matter as its composited with black to 1080.

    here's a cheat sheet

    https://www.unravel.com.au/aspect-ratio-cheat-sheet

    -------------------------------

    -for proxy workflow:

    The supported workflow allows attachment of Proxies with other frame sizes & PAR (pixel aspect ratio) combinations that are divisible by the Full Res clip (for example, 1920x1080 1.0 PAR Full Res and 960x540 1.0 PAR Proxy or 1440x1080 1.33 PAR Proxy), but other parameters such as fielding, frame rate, duration, and audio channels must match. Mismatched audio channels results in warning dialogs and are not allowed.

    -for web

    Note: If you add letterboxing to a video before uploading it, the widescreen player will add vertical bars, resulting in black bars all around the video and a bad viewing experience.

    A
    alfredob58259664Author
    Participant
    September 26, 2018

    Thank you Jim and Chris for your prompt replay.

    The decision to go anamorphic is the DOP decision.

    At the end they decided to go ArriRaw 3424x2202 Open Gate camera setting (25fps) and Proress for the slomo in 50fps (incamera).

    SO I was happy when the data manager told me he would create the proxy on the spot. So he did. Got a test footage today, now having a look to find out that the proxy has a 1 channel stereo configuration and the Arriraw file is a 5 mono channel configuration, which I new it was but I though the data manager would create a custom proxy with 5 audio channel configuration (I did a test creating a proxy myself and it worked).

    Now when trying to attach the proxy to the raw I get the waring message about mismatch of channel configuration.

    Modifying the audio configuration in PP then trying to attach the proxy doesn't work.

    Might try to do the edit on the proxy he game me, then remane the folder and when PP ask me where the folder is I point it to the raw folder. I tried to do it as a test and it worked.

    Do you have any suggestion on how to do it other ways without re-creating proxies from scratch?

    Thank you very much for your precious advices.

    Alfredo

    chrisw44157881
    chrisw44157881
    Inspiring
    September 26, 2018

    I am aware that how the audio channels are first created determines proxy issues or not. this is done in camera first as arri audio channels are a little funky.

    E
    excited_Genie16B8
    Legend
    September 23, 2018

    Interpret Footage is the correct method of handling anamorphic media.

    Having said that, I think you're asking the wrong questions here.  In the past, there were technical reasons for shooting with anamorphic glass, allowing a wider image on screen without using significantly more expensive film.  Today, those technical limitations are largely non-existent.  The DCI Scope spec can be achieved in Arri cameras without the use of anamporphic glass, so using it would be entirely a creative decision, a "look" you want to achieve.

    I'm not a huge fan of that look myself, especially the highly exaggerated flares JJ Abrams favors.  But if that's the style you want...

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