Participant

Question

Losing Color in Exports

Forum|Forum|9 years ago
June 17, 2016
10 replies
44915 views

Hey,

I'm having a problem whenever I export a video I'm noticing a severe desaturation of color when exporting. I've found people having the same issue, but no answers on what to do.

Any suggestions?

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T

taylork34438089

Participant

I recently had the same problem on Premiere Pro 2019. I fixed this issue by exporting an mp4 (H.264) file. The colour was off but after importing that same miscoloured mp4 file into premiere in a new project and then exporting it from there it fixed my issue.

R Neil Haugen

Legend

Interesting ... what is your monitor setup? Was the file miscoloured on re-import to Premiere?

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

T

taylork34438089

Participant

I have an old Lenovo monitor I really don't know that much about but when I re-imported into Premiere the colour was perfect. It was also fine after I exported again.

L

little red antsc42936493

Participant

Although VLC does looks more vibrant... but i also notice exporting final from Davinci VS Render the graded footages from Davinci and Export the same thing from Premiere.. we will loose about 10% color.

Correct me if im wrong.. does it gotto do with Adobe color engine?

R Neil Haugen

Legend

No.

On a fully calibrated and profiled monitor set up for video sRGB/Rec.709/gamma-2.4/100 nits anything color corrected to scopes and Program monitor within Premiere will import into Resolve or any other similar app perfectly.

It isn't Premiere that is the problem. Your OS/monitor isn't set to broadcast standards. Which are still the basis for nearly all media professionally created no matter where it will be distributed.

The Preferences option "enable display color management" is an attempt to gain a perceptual match between b-cast standards of Pr and whatever your OS has set for the monitor ICC profile. It may help you and others with non-standard systems.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

U

ufoclub

Known Participant

From what I have researched, hand on, that is incorrect. Premiere Pro doesn't display the monitor's REC709 profile within the work window. It strips away any profile resulting in a more saturated and red cast image than what you are actually working with under rec709 pretense. And even Davinci Resolve is not designed to correctly display the colors within the program (regardless of their option to use the monitor profile) unless you are using an external calibrated monitor that it is sent the signal through an SDI cable. You are correct though in that if you are using your scopes, they don't lie, no matter what you see.

But the other problem is the discrepancy between srsRGB and rec709 when it comes to compressing an H264 for uploading for streaming. I suspect most people are complaining about color loss on a computer monitor rather than on a television broadcast or a cinema screen. But I have tested and found that if you compress from a master file with that was worked on under Rec709 but then converted (without any visible change) to sRGB, then compressed, will at least have the correct contrast and saturation. But the shift to yellow green (however slight) is still something that I do a secondary correction for in anticipation.

U

ufoclub

Known Participant

Hello,

I've been working on video, animation, and independent films for quite some time. But not until I took a job at the Virginia Museum of Fine Arts for some video production did I ever have to deal with Adobe Media Encoder and Youtube. Previously I've always had an Apple Compressor to Vimeo workflow for my portfolio, and work was always installed directly in a venue or screened on cinema screens through DCP or Blu-Ray. I never noticed any problems with color shift until this new job.

So here's what I figured out.

Adobe Premiere and Davinci Resolve both seem to bypass your monitor calibration for REC709 and that is why the gamma look better and the colors are more saturated in their work windows. They are displaying the colors as they really are. But Rec709 and Rec2020 are the professional standards. I wish that Premiere and Resolve would display colors using the monitor calibration (in my case Rec709). Until ACES is everywhere we have to deal with variations of color display. Fingers crossed that one day all applications, players, hardware, etc use the same color standard ACES.

Quicktime and Youtube appear to display after processing a REC709 look that deadens the contrast and also causes a slight yellow-green shift. The most recent version of Resolve does have a parameter you can set in the settings to use your monitor calibration to display with its windows, but this still doesn't match what Quicktime or Youtube show. Ideally, if Premiere/Resolve could preview what QuickTime or youtube will display, you could work and color grade accordingly.

I know that the insider scoop on why Resolve doesn't display accurate colors on your monitor is because they want you to by a dedicated external monitor connected through an SDI cable (where I assume it will display the colors the way Quicktime and Youtube display the color).

After much experimentation, I did discover one technique to get your youtube image to match at least the gamma (contrast) of what you see in Premiere and Resolve. I render out a Pro Res or equivalent codec master (which has a built in Rec709?). I bring that into After Effects. I take off color management in project settings which then displays the colors just like Premiere or Resolve. Then I render a new master but force assign a sRGB profile to that new master. After Effects lets you assign a color profile of your choice to a render. When I use this new sRGB master within Adobe Media Encoder to make an h264 copy, the contrast is retained in quciktime and even when uploaded to Youtube.

To alter the color shift which goes towards a yellow (you can't tell unless you are grading a healthy skintone. It's on this kind of complicated color that you will see the ugly shift) I had to add an adjustment layer within my AE comp that only selected skintones and shifted them away from yellow-green.

Okay, some of you may know a lot more than me... but this problem is still going on! Comments?

R Neil Haugen

Legend

Adobe Premiere and Davinci Resolve both seem to bypass your monitor calibration for REC709 and that is why the gamma look better and the colors are more saturated in their work windows. They are displaying the colors as they really are. But Rec709 and Rec2020 are the professional standards. I wish that Premiere and Resolve would display colors using the monitor calibration (in my case Rec709). Until ACES is everywhere we have to deal with variations of color display. Fingers crossed that one day all applications, players, hardware, etc use the same color standard ACES.

Both Pr and Resolve (with the later set for a Rec.709 workflow) work within Rec.709 internally. They approach things slightly different but the end result is the same. Pr is hard-wired to work in Rec.709/gamma-2.4 unless you set the various controls to Rec.2020. Resolve of course has more user settings for the above, but ... with them at a Rec.709 setting, you get to virtually the same place.

They assume the monitor is set for Rec.709. I know some colorists with rather complex and spendy setups who are masters of calibration, and their Pr and Resolve work goes to their monitors and out the door without hassle.

QuickTime has no known awareness of color ... or anything. It just runs as it chooses, and the OS/monitor must be setup to proper standards to get anything in Qt close to "proper".

YouTube ... does a two-part encoding process. Often, if your channel isn't a major one, they skip the second part. If so, your material gets the YouTube look you noted. If you go into your channel, select one of your vids, and select the edit option in YouTube, but just save without doing anything ... it normally does the second encode and your vid now looks as you expected.

For me and my tiny channel, it seems to always do both passes. For most, it only does the first. Why? No clue. But mine always load into YouTube via Firefox and appear nearly identical to that within Pr or via VLC or PotPlayer players on my machine.

Chrome and Safari are as color-blind as QuickTime. Again, if your OS/monitor are setup together, they may look decently close to proper. Like with Qt.

And always remember ... no one on another device will ever see exactly what you see on yours. Often times, not even close. As those devices are all over the freaking map. Both figuratively and literally.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

U

ufoclub

Known Participant

I know that Resolve and Premiere work internally in REC709 2.4 gamma, and all my monitors are calibrated to Rec709 with 2.4 gamma. What I'm saying is those two programs don't display REC709 2.4 gamma in their software workspace windows. On your own monitor you could carefully color grade a clip and then output it, then see the colors displayed dully in other apps or players outside of Resolve and Premiere. In After Effects you could import the same file and also see the shifting of the colors and contrast... but if you turn off color management in After Effects, then all of a sudden the colors match those displayed with the same file in Premiere... which means that the window display in Premiere is not displaying it with any kind of color management.

S

sunlit777

Participating Frequently

All those who use Premiere Pro on a mac with dci-p3 display will get oversaturated colors and drastic discrepancy when uploaded to youtube, etc. since PP is NOT COLOR MANAGED on mac (its 2018 guys, keep on paying your subscriptions). VLC is not working properly with a p3 display either.

Guess the only workaround is to switch display to rec709 srgb gamut, but that is so lame.

update: NO! You cannot “just switch“ the profie, since PP works somehow bypassing the mac color management COMPLETELY. You can test yourself by setting some wierd profile that would screw all colors around the UI, but PP monitor will remain THE SAME! Which means it is TOTALLY UNUSABLE on any current mac since all if them have dci p3 screens, not srgb as PP seems to assume

R Neil Haugen

Legend

First, there are things coming such as HDR that most of us will need to adapt to, and PrPro's current HDR implementation is minimalist (to be rather generous). And wider-gamut spaces are slowly working into TV's and such, will be coming into broadcast work over time ... so ... do head on over to the UserVoice system and (as I and many have done) do an "Idea" request for user-settings for gamut/space/color-management.

Adobe Bug /Feature service: https://adobe-video.uservoice.com/forums/911233-premiere-pro

But ... I do have to comment ... you I do hope realize Apple is devoted to devices, the CEO has no idea why anyone would buy a desktop computer, but ... they'll sell you spendy gear anyway. These days, Cupertino/Redmond, they're just companies trying to sell stuff. Both of 'em.

It seems you bought a spendy computer with no user color space controls, with a monitor not designed for current majority of pro work (Rec 709/sRGB being the main pro space) ... and ... didn't check anything ahead of time?

And now, rather than looking at your choices, you blame the one thing you're using that is designed to run the majority of pro level work in the standard applicable: Rec709/sRGB gamma 2.2/2.4.

I'd be rather embarrassed. But then, before I shell out cash on a new computer for my editing rig, I do a ton of research ... how to get the most bang for the buck for what I'll need probably over the next 2/3 years. And to make sure everything in/on that rig works for and with the apps I'm going to be using. How to best set it up after getting it. And yes, that does include Resolve along with the Adobe DVA apps of PrPro, Ae, Au, and Pr.

Then I shell out the cash.

Which is how I've run my business for 40+ years. It's pretty standard ... and I'm always stunned when it seems someone doesn't. How do you stay in business if you don't research your main expenses?

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

S

sunlit777

Participating Frequently

Well, not being color managed on Mac platform in 2018 is fat huge NO for an app that aims at professional mac users. As for me, I’m happy with Final Cut Pro - it does display color correctly om wide gamut mac displays.

R

raulgonzo

Participant

I've got the same issue. Spent the past two years working on this film and coloring it. The colors are meant be bright and saturated, but are dumbed down considerably. Working on a 2017 iMac with 5k retina display and calibrated with a Spyder calibrator. I looked at this same image on my macbook and the comparison is much less noticeable- as it may be for everyone not on a similar display as me. I do believe this is a display issue possibly, but since I graded to this display how do I reasonable fix this? Starting over with a new monitor is not an option for us.

Adobe please help!

R Neil Haugen

Legend

You've got a very basic problem. Within PrPro, Rec709 is used ... meaning sRGB, gamma around 2.2/2.4. Outside of PrPro on that monitor, you don't see that. That monitor may well be set to P3 or something like that, at any rate, a much wider gamut than sRGB.

QuickTime player is notoriously color stupid ... pays no attention to the color info in a video file header, just works at the screen's base settings. Chrome and Safari are also color stupid, Firefox is the only browser that pays attention to video color management.

So to evaluate the quality of your work, you need to work with a managed setup. Period. Which PrPro does its best to provide within the program and the monitors it has.

The other thing you need to understand is that once that deliverable leaves your screen, you control absolutely nothing about how anyone else sees it. As one colorist put it, you can't control gramma's green tv.

He'd graded a commercial for network broadcast, it's beautiful on a proper screen. Passed the stringent broadcast QC machines and all. Went on vacation, visiting gramma in Wisconsin. One of those folks who leave the TV running in the background all the time. While talking, there comes "his" commercial. Looking very green. Total yuck.

But that was only his response, because he knew what it should look like. Hers ... she didn't see anything wrong.

Why?

Because that's how everything shows on her TV. It's 'normal' to her.

Every screen, whether monitor, phone/tablet, TV, will be set differently, and almost zero percent are actually even close to "proper" setup for color/tonality. You can't grade for that because they are going to be every direction you can think of. And the viewing conditions ... a bright room will make the same program look very different than if, on that same screen, you blocked all ambient light.

New folk at this always come back with "but my viewers are all gonna use X browser or YouTube ... how can I make sure they get what they're supposed to?"

Well ... you can't. Everything I said above still applies. Some of those screens are going to be smaller than sRGB for color gamut, and your material will be very saturated, over saturated on those, especially if viewed in controlled or dark lighting conditions. Some of the screens will be A-RGB or P3 or whatever, a larger than sRGB gamut, and they'll use non-managed viewing apps. Especially in a bright environment, your material will have lower saturation. Yep. As will all professionally produced media on that screen through the same app.

So your material, produced to b-cast standards ... will look like other material produced professionally on that screen in that viewing app.

If you try and outguess, your material will look better on some screens, but far worse on others. And whatever you do, it will not be the same as other professionally produced media on that screen and viewing app.

Once out in the wild, it's outta your control.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

Anonymous290

Participant

For my 2.5 D animation movie I use Pr CC 2018. Here some two (the second group at the middle) shots (a sky night - with light), all with the same export settings H264. Except the two last with IRE 109 checked. The two first snapshots are from Pr preview.

p1xxx

Participating Frequently

I believe I have found the answer, now I am ten jobs past discovering the issue.

If you wish to colour grade on an imac 5k, you cannot. It simply does not work in the adobe suite.

you will need to purchase a second monitor that can be calibrated (non imac) or use another program that works with the imac ( a bad solution if you pay for adobe).

Long way around in Adobe, Add a lumetri colour lut to each shot when you grade - very time consuming, far too many steps.

Grade rushes in Davincie resolve 1st, export, then start in premiere. Time consuming too, too many variable in uncut footage.

Dear Adobe, please make the system function on an imac and work with the colour profiles so when we grade its accurate. That will save a tonne of time.

R Neil Haugen

Legend

Post this as either a bug or feature request ... both?

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

V

vs-scout

Participant

This is a problem with Quicktime, not Premiere. Open your video in VLC -- you'll see the coloring is fine.

p1xxx

Participating Frequently

It's quite a major problem when quicktime, youtube, vimeo are all having the same issue. if this statement is true, which it looks like it may be

"PrPro is 'modern', and simply assumes as the full standard for Rec709 is 0-255, everything that plays Rec709 media should play it correctly. And apparently doesn't bother with a tag to say "yea, this really is Rec709 media ... ".

So what I have figured, if premiere doesn't apply the tag, the main apps / websites we use don't seem to pick it up like VLC does. I have tried every possible combo of exporter to add the tag, handbrake, mpegstreamclip, media encoder and compressor. (the source file is my prores422hq export file) I also did the DNxHD export from the timeline, same results, desaturated on youtube too

i have changed my imac screen to rec709 colour settings and like with vlc, it looks fine. but every other normal human viewer would not do this, just use their mac default. I cannot get the world to use vlc or change their colour settings, there surely must be a way to make qt and and the imac colour system recognise it like vlc does.

Compresser has a colour tag which i can force to rec709, however the mac doesn't see it. and also shows split screen input to output. The closest thing to a solution i found is to enhance the export. But that will then look bad on PC / non mac and qt environments I assume.

even the quick display pop up window on the mac is desaturated. (maybe thats QT driven too). I just don't see how it can be fine in premier, AE and vlc but bad in every thing else. It makes grading to my screen kinda pointless.

R Neil Haugen

Legend

Personally, I've never had an upload issue with either YouTube or Vimeo. I've just used the standard settings within PrPro's export systems. I know a number of others personally and "around here" that upload without issue. And there are scads of people uploading to both YouTube & Vimeo channels every day without issue ... look at channels like Rocket Jump and so many others ... Rocket Jump's main person has done numerous presentations including at NAB on how they edit within PrPro for their rapid-fire work. And the speed with which they plan, prep, shoot, and finish/post is amazing.

I have my monitors calibrated with an I-one puck & software to Rec709, and have tested my outputs on various pro-level systems, and they've been quite appropriate and very tight to how I would expect them to appear. So for my purposes, this output pipeline is functioning as expected and desired. I don't do any broadcast deliveries, and if I did, my calibration routine would be a lot higher.

I know that on my computer, VLC and PotPlayer will give me a nearly identical version of the media from what I get within PrPro ... and that QuickTime, after setting my Nvidia card settings for full dynamic range for video and to over-ride the video player when possible ... won't be too far off. Before I changed the card settings, it was the desaturated mush look.

None of this helps someone who's getting hammered with this problem. I am very aware of that, as naturally I've been on the "hammered" side on a number of issues over the years.

A few people have posted here that on their travels around the globe, uploading in different places to YouTube can get very different results. That leads me to believe YouTube's system isn't one for the planet, but has regional differences. I do not have confirmed data for this, but enough comments from various people to think the probability is high.

And in many ways, that variability should be expected. In much of Asia, "white" point is set at something higher than in the US, as standards can vary by region and even country.

So ... I don't know the exact details of your system, how well your monitor is calibrated, and the upload system from your area to YouTube. With more info, some of the regulars around here might have further ideas, and maybe we can get you past this.

Neil

Everyone's mileage always varies ...

E

excited_Genie16B8

Legend

Any suggestions?

1. Only ever use a properly calibrated, external monitor connected to a hardware player to judge the quality of your footage. It's the only way to ensure you're seeing the signal accurately.

2. If it looks correct under the conditions above, how it looks anywhere else is beyond your control.

3. Don't ever use QuickTime. For anything. Ever. (Optional, but effective.)

kulpreet singh

Inspiring

Hi Furtaco,

Which version of Premiere Pro you have?

FAQ: How to find which version of Premiere Pro you are running

Please attach a screenshot and provide us with some more information.

FAQ: What information should I provide when asking a question on this forum?

Thanks,

Kulpreet Singh

FurtacoAuthor

Participant

I'm using PP CC 2015

D

David Arbor

Inspiring

Are you by any chance exporting to H.264/MP4 and opening the file in QuickTime Player? If so, try opening the same file in VLC or even importing it back to Premiere. If you find that the colors look as expected with those other two methods then you're running across the age-old QuickTime gamma shift issue (technically it's not a gamma shift, you can read more about it here: The QuickTime Gamma Bug | vitrolite).

Edit: I should add that if this is the case then your file is fine, it's just the way QuickTime Player is interpreting the file. If this isn't the case then we can keep diagnosing.

FurtacoAuthor

Participant

Yes that is true, but when it's uploaded you YOUTUBE and VIMEO the colors look like they do on quicktime, so that's more of the issue I suppose.

D

David Arbor

Inspiring

Well if the colors in your export look exactly the same as they do in Premiere when you view the file in VLC or back inside of Premiere then the problem lies with YouTube and Vimeo. Unfortunately, I know what you're talking about, and I find that YouTube always seems to add a small red shift to my videos. Are you using the YouTube or Vimeo presets when you export or are you choosing the settings yourself? There's not a lot of things you could change that might cause this, but you at least want to be using the High profile. If you're using the presets then this is the selected profile.

You can experiment with other encoders such as HandBrake or X264. I don't know if that will change your results though.

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