FM/RoboHelp Integration

[pinu2]

We have FM 9 and we're looking to buy RoboHelp 8.  From what I'm reading here, it doesn't sound they are integrated.  I

am expecting what I saw in the RoboHelp for FrameMaker demo at the Baltimore STC conference, where

my changes in FrameMaker are automatically picked up in RoboHelp.

Is this the case or do you need to import FM into RoboHelp every time there is a change?  FYI, the sales person couldn't answer this question.

Thanks.

[Art Campbell]

I suspect what you saw was TCS2, which has some additional integration code.

However, most of the time, for most people in most situations, things work pretty well.

What you usually see in the forums are the corner cases and problems.

May want to ask in the TCS User's Group... http://groups.google.com/group/TCS-Users?hl=en.

[Burtin]

Hello, Art.

The independent (or "point") versions of FM and RH are not integrated. In order to get the functionality you saw in the demo you mentioned, you will need to upgrade to the full Adobe Technical Communication Suite, currently at version 2 (FM 9.0p250 and RH 8.0.2.208).

Best regards,

Burtin Hart

[Matt-Tech Comm Tools]

To follow on the 2 previous correct entries, you can download the

entire TCS2 suite to demo, but you'd better plan on doing it overnight or

over a weekend. (13Gb, if I remember correctly)

[pinu2]

Thanks for the information.  What I saw was actually "RoboHelp for FrameMaker" at the 2004 Baltimore STC conference.  It was a Macromedia offering before the Adobe takeover, and long before the Tech Comm Suite.  We tried to order it about eight months later and it was already discontinued.

I still have the trial CD and it worked very well - much like using RoboHelp with Word.

We were hoping to come back to RoboHelp from Flare, but we won't do it if RoboHelp still isn't integrated with FrameMaker almost six years later.  We already have FrameMaker 9, Acrobat 9 Pro, and CS3 (Photoshop, etc.), so we really don't want to overpay for RoboHelp just to get the Suite.

This is very disappointing, to say the least.

[Matt-Tech Comm Tools]

Yes, RFM was a neat product. RJ did a great job of bringing it to market.

But what is it that you feel is not integrated? I train folks on the integration regularly and use it myself.

[Burtin]

Hi, all.

I continued to use RHF to publish my on-line help (WebHelp, WebHelp (508), and HTML Help) until last March (actually, I was a "very early" adopter and one of the "RHF Mutineers" who petitioned Macromedia to rethink its decision to EOL RHF" (re: http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?rhfn14us&151). It was not easy keeping RHF "alive" on the CPU where it's been installed for 5 years past EOL. Some of us like to think that our constant nagging of Macromedia and then Adobe helped show that there is need and a lucrative market for tools such as TCS.

For me, I think TCS is now ready for use in production, albeit with some post-processing still required on the back end--but I can deal with that. This evolution has not come without pain, but anything worth doing takes time, patience, and a will to"make it happen." Like all other companies, Adobe addresses customer needs in relation to their profit-weight. TCS will only get better, given continued backing, but that will only happen if adopters are also willing to accept some risk and get it (whether by trial or outright purchase), use it, and then tell Adobe in clear, unambiguous terms what needs to be fixed. I am willing to fix some things on the back end now (keeping Adobe informed of my experiences), trusting that Adobe won't "cut and run" like Macromedia did with the EOL of RHF.

Having watched the grace with which RJ Jacquez has navigated this functionality through shark-infested waters, and how willing to listen the engineering team behind him is, I am willing to bet heavily that the next version of TCS will knock some socks off (I hope it knocks some blocks off).

Burtin Hart

[Art Campbell]

The software works, and works well... it's in the second generation.

While I understand your reluctance to spend money you don't have to, for most shops buying two or three of the applications in the suite covers the cost of the upgrade, which gives you the other aps essentially for "free."

So I'd submit that it was your shop's decision to purchase piece-meal rather than as a suite that's causing you problems.

Cheers,

Art

[Burtin]

I agree with Art completely.

A number of people have posted similar issues because of trying to take the same path (buying one or two of the parts and trying to get the same functionality as the suite) to save some money. The problem is that you just can't get here from there. It appears that you already qualify for upgrade pricing (link below), so the smart money's on cutting your losses now and adopting the whole suite as soon as possible.

http://store.adobe.com/store/en_us/popup/software/techcommsuite2/upgrade_eligibility.html

Hope this helps...

Burtin

[Matt-Tech Comm Tools]

To follow up on what Art wrote, I've long observed that most overpay for Adobe software, as they have the opportunity to purchase a maintenance contract at the time of initial purchase.

While I agree that Adobe doesn't exactly make this option front-page news, I wrote about it at http://blogs.roundpeg.com/2009/12/strategies-for-purchasing-adobe-software/

I believe my maintenance on TCS2 is currently around $260/year, given Adobe's traditional 18 month product cycle, that's far less than the current $949 upgrade price.

-Matt

---

Matt Sullivan
director of training
roundpeg, inc.

888.266.0313 x.1009
714 585-2335 cell /txt/sms
skype: mattrsullivan

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[pinu2]

Actually, that's rather presumptuous to assume my company was too cheap to buy the suite.  We have been Adobe users long before the suites came out.  And, yes, we have had the maintenance agreements, so we have been upgrading regularly.

We started using FrameMaker 4, Acrobat Pro (Exchange), and Robohelp (from Blue Sky Software) in the mid 90s.  We have faithfully upgraded FM and Acrobat all along.  In fact, we used Acrobat to upgrade to Creative Suite when it came out, so we already have a good portion of the Tech Comm Suite.

The disconnect came in 2005.  As I stated previously, I saw RoboHelp for FrameMaker at the 2004 STC conference.  When we were due to upgrade RoboHelp in early 2005, I received approval to buy RoboHelp for FrameMaker.  Much to my dismay, Macromedia told me that RoboHelp for FrameMaker had been discontinued.

I then put together a quote for RoboHelp X5 Enterprise version, only to have Adobe and Macromedia merge (buyout, whatever) and announce they were discontinuing RoboHelp.  Imagine trying to justify spending several thousand dollars on the second version of RoboHelp to be discontinued within a few short months of each other.  Plus, now RoboHelp was at a third company.

At that point, my purchase order was rescinded, and I was told to search for other options.  Since I knew Mike from his RoboHelp days, it appeared that Flare was the best option at the time, so we moved to Flare.

Now, we are considering moving back to RoboHelp, but I'm disillusioned that it still isn't integrated six years after Macromedia proved this could be done with a standalone version.  Also, it's hard to justify a second suite, when we already have a suite and basically have everything except RoboHelp from the Tech Comm Suite.  Plus, there's the baggage of explaining to my executives that, yes, this is the same product the company said they were discontinuing five years ago.  And now I have to compound that with trying to explain to executives who do not use the software that, no, RoboHelp standalone is different than RoboHelp in a suite.

Adobe certainly isn't making a switch back easier, especially when we are also evaluating AuthorIt and MadPak.  We've gone through a pre-sales person and a salesperson, who eventually shifted us back to the reseller we have been using.  Also, the reps were not able to tell me whether or not RoboHelp was integrated in the standalone version - so you can add poor customer service to the mix.

Needless to say, this has been rather exasperating. 

[Guest]

Hi, I'll chime in since my name was mentioned and I was intimately involved throughout the process you mentioned above. I was the Product Manager for FrameMaker for RoboHelp at eHelp and was likely the person who demonstrated RHF at the 2004 STC Conference.

While RoboHelp for FrameMaker was in fact EOL'ed, RoboHelp on the other hand was never EOL'ed, despite other vendors using this as a pretense to sell you their solutions.

Having said that, RoboHelp has found a great home (as have I) and since the Macromedia acquisition, it has already seen 3 major updates with many new features, including a number of unique innovations, such as AIRHelp, a solution based on Adobe AIR, which enables the publishing of the next generation of user assistance.

We continue to hear from customers that they are coming back to RoboHelp and we welcome them back with open arms. Here's my Adobe email, please contact me and I will do whatever I can to make sure you are back using our great Adobe applications and all the additional technologies that come along with them like Acrobat.com and Adobe AIR.

Sincerely,

RJ Jacquez

Adobe Evangelist for Tech Comm Suite

rjacquez@adobe.com

[pinu2]

Thanks, RJ.  I'll take this offline and send you an e-mail today.

Ted