RoboHelp Server 8 - Does it have page update and/or version tracking?

[stevenjs]

Greetings:

I have a situation at work. Boss hates RoboHelp because we have some 1000 pages divided into some 15 RH project/guides and 1) user can't search across all the guides; and 2) there is no "wiki-like" version tracking or page content update tracking that the user can see (nor any handy way of emulating same).

Does RH 8 Server solve either or both of these? If so, please detail how.

I see this below given among the RH 8 Server features, but after declaring the title "Tracking & Reporting" it goes on to talk about neither.

Tracking and Reporting

Adobe RoboHelp Server provides end users with the ability to find information when they have questions. Users can view content using any standard browser and operating system. Any number of users can access the published documents.

This is kind of urgent. Can anyone help out here?

Thanks.

I am but an egg,

Stevenjs

- Stranger in a Strange Land

[johndaigle]

Hi, Stevenjs

I'll answer inline:

>>1) user can't search across all the guides;

Answer: You could enable this even using plain WebHelp if you chose to use project merging. Of course it's all or nothing. If someone searches within one project (guide) results will come up from all content. You can't selectively search within a subset or guide. I don't know if this is what you are getting at?

RoboHelp Server has two ways to do project merging but the result is the same as above. The benefit would be that RoboHelp Server 8 has a more robust search criteria (wildcards, etc.)

>> 2) there is no "wiki-like" version tracking or page content update tracking that the user can see (nor any handy way of emulating same).

Answer: This is true in this version for both WebHelp and the WebHelp Pro (RoboHelp Server) version. However, if you deployed the AIR Help output, that would give your user the ability to post comments right in the topic which is closer to the wiki idea you mention. The commenter can post the comments for themselves only or elect to share them with all visitors to that topic. (AIR Help does not require RoboHelp Server)

>>Tracking and Reporting

>>Adobe RoboHelp Server provides end-users with the ability to find information when they have questions. Users can view content using any standard browser and operating system. Any number of users can access the published documents.

Answer: That is a true statement, but does go far enough to explain. When the end-user puts a search term or phrase in the search box (ie.question), RoboHelp Server 8 captures that text and puts it in a database. It also tracks if the user gets no results (unanswered question). It also tracks visits to all topics and the number of times visited. So, from this "traffic" database, the Author can create 7 different Feedback Reports on, for example, which search terms did not return results (suggesting the need for the author to provide that content in a revision.) Also, it can let the author know which topics are most frequently viewed and other helpful information. You can see more report examples here:
http://www.adobeopenoptions.com/products/robohelp/productinfo/feedback_reports/index.html

Hope this helps.
John Daigle

Adobe Certified RoboHelp and Captivate Instructor

www.showmethedemo.com

[stevenjs]

Thanks, John. You've covered all the bases.

I don't think any of this will help my boss "love" RoboHelp, however. He's enamored of wiki-ware Confluence, which some are contorting into help sites for their documentation, cumbersome, limiting, and controlling as it is -- just to get the auto page version/update tracking. If the Confluence folks ever get their act together, meaning they give up on being wiki-ware and go for the public facing help market, RH is in bigger trouble than it already is.

On the subject of tracking, a simple script can provide last updated information for every page. The problem with RH is that the batch re-publishing in effect causes all pages to appear updated, when only one or two actually were. Is there a way to re-publish RH which only overwrites those files/topics which were actually changed?

regards,

Steven
______________________

"I am but an egg."

--Stranger in a Strange Land

[johndaigle]

If I understand what you are asking, yes, but you would not want to use it with batch generation unless you were careful.You would have to set up a Single Source Layout with the "Publish to" (the last screen in the wizard) dialog filled in. The example screenshot shows that dialog.(This example is of RoboHelp Server, but it could be any server destination)

What is not shown is the fact that by default, if you are re-publishing content using this process, RoboHelp will check the timestamp of the destination files and compare it to your new content and only publish files that have changed. This will save time in publishing. In addition, there are three options available.

1. The first option means that RoboHelp will check the content timestamp on the server destination files. If for some reason files are missing, it will update the destination with your new output content.

2. The second option means that if you want to, RoboHelp will warn you about overwriting any files on the destination content and give you the option of skipping, overwriting, etc. (The exception is that it will not overwrite if you are batch generating)

3. The third option basically says, don't just publish "new" content, but go ahead and re-publish the entire project output.

It is possible all three boxes could be checked.

Thanks
John Daigle

Adobe Certified RoboHelp and Captivate Instructor

www.showmethedemo.com

[stevenjs]

Well that just takes the cake. Talk about misleading UI, I have been using RH since it was Macromedia's UltraDev, and I never knew it re-published only changed files by default.

Still, better late than never. If only RH included an option for putting a "last updated" script on every page, the problem would nearly be solved. The user still would not know what the change was, unless manually told, but at least they'd know when there was a change to the page. I've been including a separate "last updated" topic at the top of each guide giving the date and the topics and items within the topic which were changed or added. While this works, and solves the "what" problem, it would be great if RH included a way to automate this for each page, as it is crucial to usability.

Huge thanks to you for your help.

regards,

Steven

[Captiv8r]

Hi Steven

I think you are misunderstanding RoboHelp. It was never ever known by another name. Macromedia purchased eHelp and eHelp had RoboHelp. Perhaps Macromedia did have a product called UltraDev, but if so, it would have been an entirely different product.

Cheers... Rick

Helpful and Handy Links RoboHelp Wish Form/Bug Reporting Form Begin learning RoboHelp HTML 7 or 8 within the day - $24.95! Adobe Certified RoboHelp HTML Training SorcerStone Blog RoboHelp eBooks

[stevenjs]

Maybe so, but MM dropped UltraDev for RoboHelp, not to split hairs. The point is I go back a decade or more.

[Captiv8r]

Hmmm, I wasn't with the MM umbrella long enough to know what UltraDev was even about or to even know it existed. So I'll just take your word for it that they dropped it in favor of RoboHelp.

The odd part about that statement (at least to me, and quite possibly to others as well) is that MM actually tried to KILL RoboHelp. Immediately after acquiring the eHelp corporation, they laid off all the RoboHelp development team. Then not much longer after that, they terminated the RoboHelp product manager.

P.S. I go back a ways too. I've used RoboHelp since it was at literal version 2 when it was a fancy add in for Microsoft Word version 2. The year was 1992.

Cheers... Rick

Helpful and Handy Links RoboHelp Wish Form/Bug Reporting Form Begin learning RoboHelp HTML 7 or 8 within the day - $24.95! Adobe Certified RoboHelp HTML Training SorcerStone Blog RoboHelp eBooks

[LarryTX]

Actually, not true. UltraDev was sort of the predecessor of Dreamweaver in its current incarnation. Specifically, at one time, you used Dreamweaver if you did not intend to have a database-driven Web site. You used UltraDev if you did want to connect to a database and draw content from it. That was at a time when relatively few Web sites were database-driven. As we moved into a database-driven world, Macromedia merged the UltraDev features into Dreamweaver and dropped UltraDev. I used both and am very familiar with them. (I too go back more than a decade.)

UlraDev never had anything to do with RoboHelp except that, as with Dreamweaver, you could construct a help system using it, but only with a lot more effort than it would require in RoboHelp.

UltraDev did have a lot more sophisticated behaviors (UltraDev/Dreamweaver-spek for Javascript routines) than Dreamweaver at the time. It probably did have a date last updated function which may be what you're remembering.

[Captiv8r]

Hi again

It seems I overlooked the actual question you posted here. A last updated area on the page. Indeed that is possible to achieve with RoboHelp and there are a few different ways to "automate" it. Apologies for missing that and kind of causing a sidestep on your question.

You could insert a line at the bottom of each page with a "last updated" date that existed as a field. As you made later edits to each topic in RoboHelp, the field would automatically update to reflect the date added. The main issue with that is the date would also update if you inadvertently opened the topic in the editor, looked at it and realized it wasn't what you wanted. You could also configure the field so it didn't automatically update, but that would also force you to remember to update the field each time you made an edit to the topic.

You could also somewhat automate a "What's New" topic using See Also keywords. If you have RoboHelp 8, there should be a project template that will contain this. Just create a new project and use the  "Knowledge Base" project template. Once you get the project created, look closely at the "What's New" topic. The topic has instructions inside that advise what is going on with it.

Cheers... Rick

Helpful and Handy Links RoboHelp Wish Form/Bug Reporting Form Begin learning RoboHelp HTML 7 or 8 within the day - $24.95! Adobe Certified RoboHelp HTML Training SorcerStone Blog RoboHelp eBooks

[johndaigle]

Just adding to Rick's good comments. Indeed, Macromedia killed RoboHelp, but happily Adobe's attitude was dramatically opposite of MM. They not only decided to keep developing it, but since they bought it in early 2006, there have been 3 releases (v6, v7 and now v8). It will be exciting to see what is in RoboHelp "Next" given the major leaps they have made in the past with each new release (though we don''t know when that will be).

Anyone who would like to add to the wish list for future releases, should go to the link also found in Rick's sig.

RoboHelp Wish Form/Bug Reporting Form

Thanks

John Daigle
Adobe Certified RoboHelp and Captivate Instructor
Evergreen, Colorado
www.showmethedemo.com

[stevenjs]

Thank you, Captiv8r. My recent exploration of unused RH features brought me to just that template, and use of see also, as well as the RH updating field. All good to know, none of them real solutions. If automatic, then pages will show an update sometimes when there was none, which I could see driving a user crazy not knowing what had changed. If it is static, then its presence on every page is a bit of overkill, and must be manually updated when the page is. My solution, as long as I have to do something or other manually, is to spell out the changes, when, what and where, in a running "Last Updated" topic at the top of the list.

Where I started this thread, certain wiki-type ware, in this case some unripe cave-ware has caught my boss' eye, and he has developed a keenly negative view of RH on account of its lack of systemic update tracking, versioning features. Given the can of worms they are calling "Confluence," this is of course silly, but what can I do? He has declared flat out, whatever we use next, it will not be RH, and I have an uphill battle to prevent the use of this neo neanderthal cult-ware "Confluence."

Thanks again, John, I'll get that wish in, suggest we all do the same.

Steven

[Guest]

I know this was posted a long time ago, but we've had all of the same issues. We've had to create a new and updated page...and have an Owner/Review section on every page to track updates and ownership, but it is a huge pain. Furthermore, our management team is really on a wiki/blog feature that would allow user comments, and while I've researched AIR, we cannot push our files to users desktops as our system is updated daily. Have you come up with any ideas on this? It is so critical in the way information is shared, corrected, and allows user participation. Please develop this Adobe!

[Guest]

Delighted to hear from you Molly 😉

A good thread never grows old, just ripens with age 😉

Thanks for putting in a request to Adobe for such features, though they keep telling me this is not the place, you need to go to their features suggestion page, wherever they hide that, and get ignored there 😉

We finally, and the old RH hands here will no doubt get a chuckle after all my vinegar on RH, ended up keeping RH for user guides, which for us here are not updated daily, but here and there, now and then, so the "last updated" page in each guide which keeps a running tab on changes is not hard to maintain.

We sort of solved the "currency" problem in a rather novel way, not that it would have been my first choice, but it was my boss' choice, and has some intriguing points to it, so I'm all on board and very curious to see how it turns out. We launched last week, so far no feedback.

We borrowed a nice theme from WordPress and created a help site in the "blog" format, with "posts" being in-house instructional articles, some with screenshots that amount to mini-tutorials, which are of course listed chronologically, key word searchable, tag searchable, and post category browse-able. Each post has a "comment" feature.

For peristent content, we used WP "pages," which talk about the user guides and link off to them in new windows, as well as providing background on our software product, etc. etc. I wish I could give you a link but its behind a login, and apparently there is no way to attach a screenshot here.

In addition to the CMS features of WordPress, we are able to have a multitude of content writers instead of just myself, although I edit everything and approve comments. This is critical as we have people with ears much closer to our customers than mine will ever be, as they answer all the support calls. Adoption has been enthusiastic, with post/instructional articles coming in by the dozens from them.

I'm eager to know whether the "sponataneity factor" -- for lack of a better way to capture the essence of the WP "blog" versus the traditionally staid help site -- actually opens minds to learning and creates some bit of excitement and/or sense of community among users. The silence so far, comment-wise, has been defeaning, however.

I also added a mailto: feedback link to each topic page in all of the RH guides, so we're all ears. Now, if someone would just speak up 😉

I was dead set against the wiki idea, especially the Atlassian "Confoolence" flavor my boss wanted, so WordPress was a good compromise. At least it's standards compliant HTML with a PHP scripted MySQL database, so our in-house developers can play around if they have a mind to, while most wikis are non-standards markup and very hard to bend into a "help web site." WP, on the other hand, is quite amenable to this use.

Are you in NYC by any chance?

Steven

[Guest]

Confoolence! Ha. I'm in Colorado, with a view of the mountains!

I really like all of the info here on WordPress. To be honest, if I had known about WordPress, I might have opted for that first, but after a year of getting RBH going, I'd like to look into what WP can do inconjunction with RBH. I'd like for WP and RBH to play together? I'd love to see some mock-ups of your formatting so I can look into this....I can send a private message with my email if you can share?

We've included a comment feature as well, but it seems like cigarette breaks seem to be a better way to gather gripes, and as I don't smoke, so no luck there. I agree with the importance of Wiki and Blogging. How better to get people involved? The Adobe help system is, um, challenged, but this user forum demonstrates how critical user and learner input is in creating a way of sharing and growing knowledge.

[Guest]

Sure, send a PM if you like, or I can put a few shots up elsewhere and post the URLs here. Things are slow here 😉

That's exactly what we've done, got WP and RH to play nicely together. The WP theme my boss chose is a little loud for a help site, but we're in the advertising biz where it is likely well tolerated. And maybe that's what help sites need, a little shake up.

I'm not sure what you mean by mockups of my "formatting," but screenshots of the site I can do.

I looked into various feedback-ware to incorporate into RH, but boss man nixed that idea. Then I had to talk him out of making me put a thumbs up/down thingy on the RH pages. That kind of useless, feel-good, fake feedback makes me sick. Apple does it on their help pages, to their shame.

[Captiv8r]

Hi there

Happy to see someone that agrees with the fakey feedback!

So just for a nickel tour, you are using RoboHelp mixed with WordPress somehow? I might think they would be somewhat mutually exclusive.

Care to give us a broad stroke example of how you have comingled the two?

Cheers... Rick

Helpful and Handy Links RoboHelp Wish Form/Bug Reporting Form Begin learning RoboHelp HTML 7 or 8 moments from now - $24.95! Adobe Certified RoboHelp HTML Training SorcererStone Blog RoboHelp eBooks

[Guest]

as stated, Rick. I use a link, new window.

[stevenjs]

your PM did not get through the tangled web Adobe has woven.

try again?

[AugustMohr]

It's nice to know I'm not the only one chasing this problem -- the OP's stated problem, not user feedback, WordPress, etc.

Like the OP, I want to be able to flag when the actual page content has changed.   Rick's comment from several months ago seems about as close as I am finding so far:

\\

You could insert a line at the bottom of each page with a "last updated" date that existed as a field. As you made later edits to each topic in RoboHelp, the field would automatically update to reflect the date added. The main issue with that is the date would also update if you inadvertently opened the topic in the editor, looked at it and realized it wasn't what you wanted. You could also configure the field so it didn't automatically update, but that would also force you to remember to update the field each time you made an edit to the topic.

//

Manually updating will mostly work, although it is a minor pain.  I have not used fields before, so I'm hoping it's as quick as just pressing a function key to update all the fields on a page.  That is FAR more manageable than having to manually type a new date.  That's painful and therefor is just not going to happen reliably.

I wonder about the Save All button.  Will that update fields even if the page has not changed?

Using Fields looks promising so I will be doing some experimenting and I'll report back as I find things out.

But the kicker to that seems to be embedded in the difference between GENERATE and PUBLISH, and the descriptions of the internal mechanisms there leave me a little confused.  The option to not update files when Publishing seems to depend on whether or not the files have "changed" but the process of Generating seems to update the dates on all files, regardless of changed content.  The No Update option on Publish appears to be about saving bandwidth and upload time, so it cannot be doing anything like a Diff on the files before copying, that would defeat the point.

So if the Generated files all get their dates Touched, even if the content has not changed, how does Publish know if the files have changed or not?

Or is the Publish option looking at the same thing as the auto-update of the Field is?  That would mean that, in the same way as Rick suggests that an auto-updated field would change even if you simply look at a file, then the Publish option would ALSO cause any file that you simply looked at to be uploaded and replaced on the server too.

Am I on the right track here?

Before finding this thread, I have been looking at the idea of an external shell script that would get the file date and massage it into the RH HTML source.

My script idea would bypass all of RH's internal tracking.  Since I don't have to worry about bandwidth and upload times, I have been thinking that I could have a duplicate of the published version as a Content Reference Version and do a Diff between that and the local source, where the Diff script would ignore things like the update date/time text in its comparisons.  The Reference copy would have, as its file timestamps, whenever the script discovered a "meaningful" difference. Otherwise it would leave its reference copies alone.  The reference copy would be holder of the date on the "content", regardless of changes in the published version, or "unmeaningful" changes in the source. Once the Diff script found a "meaningful" difference between the reference copy and the source, the source would be copied as the new reference.

That would completely insulate the date/time text from the Publishing process. The Diff script could even be such that it stripped out all formatting and only looked at actual changes to the text, and could report them and give you the option of manually deciding if it was "meaningful".

But that's quite a bit of work.  My idea of its usefulness is reinforced by how many people have looked into it on this thread alone.  But I will look at Fields first.

If I am making this too hard, please let me know!

Thanks,

August