Hi Rob So did you end up with 2 files in identical colour spaces? same CMYK profile embedded? both CGATS21_CRPC6.icc If not, might I ask please, how did you deal with pasting together 2 images from different colour spaces? did you allow the offered conversion to take place? or - maybe you have "ask when pasting" switched off in color settings? thanks neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hi jethrodesign you write: After doing a little more digging, it looks like 'CGATS21_CRPC6.icc' and 'GRACoL2013_CRPC6.icc' may be the same (or GRACoL is derived from CGATS21). Below are the perceptual curves FYI. I think you are probably right. The fact they are from the same press data doesn't mean that are the same - since profile softwares differ and also profile building includes options like TAC, max K, K start, GCR level, K width etc. of course those options can alter the actual profile significantly. [e.g. there's quite a difference between the eci.org's F39L profile and Adobe's version. I hope this helps if so, please do mark my reply as "helpful", so others who have similar issues can see the solution thanks neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hi jethrodesign, I'd say you've made the right decision. Just remember to check with clients / printers before altering the way you make CMYK fles.   neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hi jethrodesign, An important starting note: before adopting updated print standards, it's important to ask the people for whom you are preparing files [or the print shop] which CMYK profiles they want you to use for file conversion. You're right this could be easier ';~}. Although Idealliance do seem to be trying by providing the 2013 CSF files. [see below though about a 2015 CMYK profile update that’s not been included], I am not in the US but will try throw a little light on it. I used to be able to see the downloads but it seems that they are now "members only". Idealliance providing the CSF files seems like a great idea, but as you've discovered using them isn't perhaps as straightforward as it might be. There are various GRACoL CSF settings files for download - As you mentioned the CMYK ICC profile CGATS21_CRPC6.icc, I am presuming the CSF file you chose was GRACOL2013-C1 (CGATS21-2 CRPC6) I tend to use Photoshop as a base for studying behaviour - here is my Photoshop (CC2017) color settings dialog, with GRACOL2013-C1 (CGATS21-2 CRPC6).CSF file selected as you can perhaps see, the CSF usefully described there as: "Optimized for ISO-standard printing on Universale PremCoated. Large gamut (typically commercial) printing  as defined in CGATS 21-2-2013 OK to use Intent: Perceptual and Dither if preferred." In INDesign CC 17, I see this when I load the CSF - seems to be what you are seeing with CMYK=CGATS21_CRPC6.icc ? In Illustrator CC17 my result matches yours: In Illustrator I would expect the same CMYK profile to be loaded as in the other applications, but, as it's not, you could select the CGATS21_CRPC6.icc profile in Illustrator . You ask about what's included in a .CSF file, well everything you see in the Photoshop color settings dialog above, it includes policies as well as working spaces etc. To the best of my knowledge, nothing is "hidden". My suggestion. IF you wish to adopt GRACoL 2013 and it's use approved by your print suppliers then you could download the CGATS21_CRPC6.icc icc profile and select it for CMYK in illustrator. You may also like to consider that the CGATS21_CRPC6 CMYK profile was updated in 2015, ask the printers. CGATS21_CRPC6.icc is apparently circa 2013, there is CGATS21_CRPC6 V2.icc now (it's dated 2015) - there doesn’t seem to be a CSF file for that but it's easy to select in applications once you have downloaded the icc profile. I hope this helps you if so, please do mark my reply as "helpful" and if you're OK now, please mark it as "correct" below, so others who have similar issues can see the solution thanks neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hi Jdanek, I am using Macs, mainly a macbook and an iMac, I have an Eizo Coloredge connected - as those screens have a high level of accuracy when calibrated. Also good uniformity. ... View more

Hey D Fosse, yes DISCUS is expensive I agree. The glass filters and temperature sensor, development and build quality for a small market device are likely to blame. Nice that it's out there though, also that Eizo support it as an instrument in Colordege. have a good week thanks neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hi DFosse, The best sensor? I'd say that's the basICColor DISCUS. It has pro level pricing though. DISCUS was a selected by high end proofing company gmg for their softproofing system, which has to say a lot. "Proven Stability: Using premium coated optical glass filters, and combination with sensors offering high inter-instrument agreement, the DISCUS guarantees long life stability. Each device is individually calibrated and can also be recertified. This provides peace of mind that the measurements and results achieve the highest possible standard." "Lab-grade Precision: The DISCUS is the only competitive device offering a temperature sensor, which combined with unique circuitry, compensates for device warming that occurs during the course of repeated measurements. The device maintains perfect reference to absolute black and insures accuracy in the shadow region measurements." more here: basICColor DISCUS highly accurate measurement sensor for display system calibration |  colourmanagement.net thanks neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hi, I reckon a decent starting point at an entry level cost would be the Datacolor Spyder 5, I've seen good resilts with those, especially when the Soyder 5 colorimeter is used with a subsequent upgrade to my favourite display software "basICColor display". so that's my recommendation. Do it in 2 stages over time. At a slightly higher price the XRite i1 display pro is worth a look As I am sure many will point out. Again I prefer to run the colorimeter with basICColor software. if you are in Europe and contact me directly I can give you a -20% discount code for the spyder. I hope that helps, please mark as helpful if so if youre OK now, please mark as answered so others can see theres useful info in this thread. best of luck neil barstow colourmanagement ... View more

Hi Kerry, I'd say D Fosse has answered your question well. That’s a good explanation neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hia AdamK, there's a bit more to it than that with Pantone colours and print. if it is set up in a document and printed as a "spot-colour" then it should indeed print right. If it's to be made up from the CMYK inks you (or someone in the workflow) then need(s) to control that. Hex, yeah I guess you could do it that way. Choose a hex colour you like and just go with it, if it looks tight on your screen (viewed in a web browser) then others will likely experience something similar..  HIH I hope this helps if so, please do mark my reply as "helpful", so others who have similar issues can see the solution thanks neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hi Catherine great so that rules out one possible issue I think. on my system the appearance is very similar between those applications so there is plainly an issue with your system I would indeed follow DFosse's advice and recalibrate then go from there. ... View more

Hi Catherine When I view that image in Bridge and in Camera RAW I see the same appearance throughout. However, try this, in Photoshop make a copy of my test-image, go to edit / convert to profile - and convert to sRGB save the file with a new name, I suggest you include "sRGB" in there now open the sRGB version in Bridge and in ACR. I'd be interested to know if that makes any difference? I hope this helps if so, please do mark my reply as "helpful" and if you're OK now, please mark it as "correct" below, so others who have similar issues can see the solution thanks neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hi Catherine, D Fosse has made some helpful suggestions. Rather than using your own photo or n image you've created, I would take a known "test" image and use that to make some checks, [a "test" image is useful because it's generally a composite of various images including skin-tone and other "memory colours" - which means that even without a reference proof print you can tell pretty much is the appearance is in the ballpark.] - you can download my test image in CMYK or RGB as preferred here for free: [ downloads | colourmanagement.net   ]. Next, open that image in all the apps you are having issues with and compare the appearance. Photoshop would be the reference application if I were making this test. Note: If an app warns you about the document (image) causing an embedded profile mismatch, then just accept the document's embedded profile. Maybe do that test now, then calibrate the Benq and repeat the test. Testing and good notes are the secret behind a lot of such issues. Using V2 profiles [in this case your display profile] is a good policy generally, as D Fosse wrote, V4 ICC profiles can cause issues with some applications. Please let us know how you get on. I hope this helps if so, please do mark my reply as "helpful", so others who have similar issues can see the solution thanks neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hi Jack Thanks for your thanks - please would you be so kind as to mark my earlier reply as "helpful". it's thanks that make the world go round ';~} As you do not have the option to alter the cursor colour, why not change the image temporarily whilst you get rid of the faults? How about this, add a  temporary "adjustment layer" to your original image that needs to be retouched, using that layer, adjust the tone or perhaps even add colour - your cursor will show now. next finish the retouch and discard the temporary adjustment layer. I hope this helps if so, please do mark my reply as "helpful" and if you're OK now, please mark it as "correct" below, so others who have similar issues can see the solution thanks neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hi Jackm does this help at all, I fear it's all that's available in options, but may not offer all the options you'd like?: Work with Cursors Options Click the Edit (Win) or Photoshop (Mac) menu, point to Preferences, and then click Cursors. Select the Painting Cursors options you want to use: Standard. ... Select the Other Cursors options you want to use: Standard. ... Click OK. Click to view larger image. I hope this helps if so, please do mark my reply as "helpful" and if you're OK now, please mark it as "correct" below, so others who have similar issues can see the solution thanks neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hi 
 gongtaow17532299, I can't see anything wrong with those profiles in my tests using the very capable "Colorthink".. Sorry I hope this helps if so, please do mark my reply as "helpful" thanks neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hi I'll have a look at the profile structure Monday. Travelling this week, my apologies. Neil Barstow colourmanagement ... View more

Hi So you have a Windows problem, it's not a Photoshop issue, it seems as the profile fault / error is system wide. I am still unsure as to why you want to "work" in a printer colourspace. however, you'll certainly need to convert during the print process so the profile needs to work. If you upload it I will look at it (and maybe fix it) as I suggested earlier, but it does seem that your W10 installation may be at fault here. Perhaps a clean install is needed. good luck I hope this helps, If so please do mark my reply as "helpful" and if you're OK now as: "correct answer" so that others can track down this thread if they have similar issues. Thanks Neil Barstow, colourmanagement.net  ... View more

Hi gongtaow Please give an English translation of the error message. Is it actually a CMYK profile you made? You can't load an RGB profile there in the CMYK slot. Please upload the profile you made somewhere so I can download and check it for errors for you. WeTransfer maybe? Please mark as helpful if it is';~} I am unsure why you want to edit a file in the printer's CMYK Colour space. Working in RGB and converting a file at the end of editing is a more regular way of working. Otherwise you have an edited file that's only suitable for that one printer / paper! However if you do want to edit in printer Colour space then try this: Can you "assign" the profile in the edit / assign profile dialog? Or convert to it if your file is RGB? That may be more correct than setting a printer profile you made as the default CMYK anyway. That default CMYK (sometimes called the CMYK workingspace) slot is normally reserved for a standard CMYK profile like ISO coated or SWOP coated. I hope this helps, If so please do mark my reply as "helpful" and if you're OK now as: "correct answer" so that others can track down this thread if they have similar issues. Thanks Neil Barstow, colourmanagement.net  ';~} ... View more

Hi Martino Please open the RGB Jpeg then open Photoshop's levels adjustment window [the method below doesn't work with CMYK files] now in levels, move inwards either of the upper sliders [those sliders adjust INPUT levels] do this whilst holding do the alt or option key on your keyboard holding down that key gives the clipping display, areas shown as solid are "clipped" [clipped = either solid white or black with no detail] [more here: Use the Photoshop Levels adjustment ] Say you're moving the "light end" / white slider, if nothing is clipped - when you first click it the image will go solid black, now as you slide it inwards the lightest pixels are revealed - and if you released the slider there the image would now be clipped. IF the file IS overexposed, then it's clipped already - when you click the slider, as I described, you'll see image areas in colour or white already, those are the overexposed areas. I hope this helps if so, please do mark my reply as "helpful" and if you're OK now, please mark it as "correct" below, so others who have similar issues can see the solution thanks neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hi gongtaow, Since Microsoft resigned from the International Color Consortium this hasn't got any easier. When you right click the new profile you made and select "install profile" is that when the issue (the warning) occurs? If so, then that seems to be a Windows 10 issue and probably a question for X-rite. [ The easiest way to install a profile in Windows Windows is to right click on the profile in Windows Explorer and select "install profile". Windows copies the profile to the correct directory automatically. The default location for installed profiles is: C:\Windows\System32\spool\drivers\color] You wrote"PS just kept telling me that they are invalid profile so that cannot be loaded" are you seeing a warning dialog in Photoshop?? Can you please post a screenshot of the warning dialog you see? One idea - I wonder if W10 requires the suffix ".icm" rather than ".icc"? Why not try that? Microsoft used to insist on profiles being suffixed with ".icm". I hope this helps if so, please do mark my reply as "helpful" and if you're OK now, please mark it as "correct" below, so others who have similar issues can see the solution thanks neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hi Roberto, can you please translate that dialog box / warning to English? I hope I can help you, but not in Spanish, sorry. thanks neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hi Joelg for some reason I could only go back and respond to your original post, ah well, here goes, I am answering your final comments with this, hope it helps: you ask: "Maybe someone is able to explain to me the difference between standard and high quality has it took pretty much the same time to print.... and if it does make a difference?" these days "resolution" and "single pass or bi-directional" options seem (for simplicity?) to be bundled up into that one setting in printer software. I'd suggest that a setting such as finest detail of high quality is not only enabling finest resolution but also switching off bi-directional print. I hope this helps if so, please do mark my reply as "helpful" and if you're OK now, please mark it as "correct" below, so others who have similar issues can see the solution thanks neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hi Bahaar, I don't entirely understand your post, sorry ?? "I did not face any problem while adding text as i zoomed in!" ?? Plainly Photoshop text is added as a vector (no pixels yet) ['til its flattened] so, this is not looking like an image resizing issue. Your FANTA logo looks OK viewed at the small size but not when magnified, that’s what I'd expect. The pixels get pretty big when magnified so you can see them. Seems logical to me. I'm not able to understand what you are expecting, but blowing up a tiny 72ppi logo like that is inevitable going to reveal a lot of pixel detail. I hope this helps if so, please do mark my reply as "helpful" and if you're OK now, please mark it as "correct" below, so others who have similar issues can see the solution thanks neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hi brycar, That’s quite a small banner you're making, is it running full width of the site? 600pix would be more normal, or even more. Could be a mobile site though I guess. Anyhow, smoothness in images and logos is all about the number of pixels, if you only have 65 pixels in height then that's a very small number to define a logo within. Is your file in Photoshop set to 72ppi*, and your image 72ppi or does it need resizing?  (* 238 by 65 pix that’s only 3.3" x 0.94" - a very small banner)? I hope this helps if so, please do mark my reply as "helpful" and if you're OK now, please mark it as "correct" below, so others who have similar issues can see the solution thanks neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hi Conrad C, I agree it's not right to exclude BenQ from a list of decent displays because of pricing. But I would place them lower than the Eizo or NEC hardware calibration displays, because the uniformity has been reported as being poor. Uniformity of colour and tone is pretty vital on a photography display, so I feel it's worth prospective buyers at least getting a demo before buying. It seems fair to compare the BenQ with other displays at a similar price. Not with high end graphics arts specialist screens. Hardware calibration can be a significant plus for those dealing with artificial gradients. Unfortunately though I've had experience with a client who reported very poor appearance after calibration, comparing display appearance to a certified proof image (a print). He resorted to trying basICColor display software - great software but which does not support hardware calibration on BenQ screens. Anyway in his opinion the result far exceeded the quality he'd seen previously. If the manufacturer's bundled calibration and profiling software can't make a good showing on the screen, that's another cause for concern IMO. That's just a sample of 1, so do bear that in mind. Again, buyers should get a demo. This may mean that another low cost display - that's been calibrated well - could be a better or equal option. For me, as an Eizo has a good 5 year warranty (conditions apply of course) that means it's the safe bet. The display screen is a users window onto his or her files, as DFosse wrote - and I agree, it’s a rather important part of the chain, perhaps the most important - alongside the eye. I wouldn’t mind a test of a BenQ myself, even though the info above is from trusted sources. For now it's buyer beware I reckon. Anyhow, just my thoughts. neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more

Hi Joelg #1 do your testing on a canon paper listed in the printer software under "media type" #2 check the head, you did that #3 take it easy with photoshop edits if working on 8 bit files. Over editing colour and tome can lead to insufficient data to define smooth gradations properly. maybe test with a test image to get started, that rules out issues you may have created in your own images. Look at my website, there is an Adobe RGB testimage there under downloads which is free to use. downloads | colourmanagement.net Can I ask though - by "banding"n do you mean straight lines across the print - parallel with the print head movement? That's normally a hardware fault. Personally, I recommend using the term "banding" for only that symptom. Those unwanted straight lines across a print can be caused by a partial head blockage (nozzle blockage) or, sometimes head strike - when the head is incorrectly spaced from the paper which, in some cases, means it touches the print leaving "skid marks"). Printers sometimes have a setting to adjust the head gap "platen gap", if not you'd need thinner paper to avoid head strikes. Perhaps you have faults in gradations where there should be smooth tones, but now there are steps (like contour lines on a map). If that's it then the term "contouring" or "posterisation" describes the symptom better. Bahaar Khan has some good tips for you above if it's "contouring" or "posterisation" you are seeing in your gradients. It's OK to call it banding but it can get a bit confusing when too many differing symptoms get the same name! DFosse is right about the colour management settings, you do need to get that right too. IF you're using Canon paper, then generally setting Photoshop to "printer manages colours" IS easier. Just make sure that the actual paper you have in the printer is selected under media in the printer's software settings. If it's not Canon paper you'll need an accurate icc profile for your exact printer and paper - AND information about the correct media option to use with that profile. Paper manufacturers sometimes provide both, sometimes just the icc profile, which is pretty useless as the media option has a big influence on print appearance. I hope this helps if so, please do mark my reply as "helpful" and if you're OK now, please mark it as "correct" below, so others who have similar issues can see the solution thanks neil barstow, colourmanagement ... View more