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J Isner
Enthusiast
J Isner
Enthusiast
Activity
‎Jul 06, 2021
03:09 PM
My question only concerned grayscale tones, and I still believe they should not change when converting between color spaces with the same gamma I think Stephen identified the problem: it's the nonlinear gamma of sRGB.
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‎Jul 06, 2021
03:06 PM
That's interesting, and it answers my question. Thanks!
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‎Jul 06, 2021
12:19 PM
I have a Photoshop document with embedded profile sRGB. The document is "grayscale." That is, R=G=B for all pixels. When I convert the document to AdobeRGB, I was surprised to see the RGB numbers change. For example, (23,23,23) becomes (29,29,29). The L of Lab remains the same, which indicates the tone itself has not changed. I thought grayscale RGB numbers are the same in sRGB and AdobeRGB, and that only non-grayscale numbers are different. Was I wrong to think this? Here are my Color settings
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‎Jun 17, 2021
01:24 PM
I'm convinced it's a numerical problem that has nothing to do with the document profile. In the grid I attached, each cell is 5 RGB units darker than the previous cell. If I use a grid with the same number of steps, but where each cell is 3 units darker than the previous cell, setting the black point on the last cell makes that cell (0,0,0). The result is the same regardless of the document profile.
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‎Jun 17, 2021
12:43 PM
Maybe you missed what I said in the preceding post: "If I convert to profile Adobe RGB, I get the same numerical problem: setting the black point on any cell gives that cell an RGB value of (1,1,1)."
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‎Jun 17, 2021
10:35 AM
As I understand it, a document with profile Gray Gamma 2.2 profile has a single channel (gray) and 256 gray levels: 0 ... 255. It's just like RGB, except there's only one channel. So RGB numbers are perfectly fine with a grayscale profile. If I convert to profile Adobe RGB, I get the same numerical problem: setting the black point on any cell gives that cell an RGB value of (1,1,1). I tried converting to a custom gamma 2.2 profile with all variations of rendering intent, black point compensation, and even conversion engine. All give the same result: black is 1 or (1,1,1) if the profile is RGB. I attached the document "Spyder-53.tif" for anyone who wants to try it.
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‎Jun 16, 2021
09:48 PM
The inverted image is printed on film using a RIP to control ink density (I mean actual transmission density, a logarithmic value). I need black (which, after inversion becomes white) not to lay down any ink on the film. I prepare the file in Photoshop (which is what you see here), then export a tif which I print with the RIP from another application. I tried several ways of doing it, all with the same result. In fact, the first way I tried was using a curve adjustment and sliding the Black Input over to 151, just as you did in your screenshot. But wait, I see you used 152. Sure, that will give you black in the last step, but the tone won't be evenly distributed. 0, 3, 8, 13, 18, ... By masking black over the last cell, I localized the non-linearity: 0, 6,11,16,21. Even if there's no clean way to fix it, I would like to understand why Photoshop does this.
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‎Jun 16, 2021
07:56 PM
In Color Settings I have Relative Colorimetric and black point compensation set. I converted to RGB profile and the same thing happens. I think it's a numerical problem. I'm printing on clear film to make digital negatives for darkroom printing. Black is needed to fully block light during exposure. If it's not pure black, some light will get through and the print will not achieve paper white. I solved the problem temporarily by masking pure black over cell 53. But I'd still very much like to understand why this happens.
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‎Jun 16, 2021
06:27 PM
My document has a Gray Gamma 2.2 profile. The image consists of 53 cells arranged left-to-right and top-to-bottom (like English text). The first cell (at the upper left) has an RGB value of 255 and the last cell (at the lower right) has an RGB value of 151. Each cell is 2 RGB units darker than the previous cell : 255, 253, 251, ..., 153, 151. I want to normlize this image to have a full tonal range from white to black. In other words, I want the first cell to remain white, the last cell to become black, and the intermediate tones to be evenly distributed over the range 0 to 255. Using a Curves adjustment layer, I set the black point on the last cell. But instead of setting its RGB value to 0, it sets the value to 1: Clearly there's something I don't understand about black point. I always thought black was 0. Why does this happen, and what should I be doing? It is essential for my application that the last cell have an RGB value of 0.
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‎May 12, 2021
05:09 PM
Yes, I ended up having to rasterize the smart object in order to crop it. However I believe there must be a way to do this without sacrificing the smart object. Here is what I am trying to do. The main document is a panoramic image. I converted one of the layer groups in the main document to a smart object. In the main document, I then cropped out a square out of the middle of the panorama. But when I open the smart object, it's still a panorama. Normally this wouldn't matter. But my workflow involves making two prints: once from the main object and once from the smart object. The image in the main document will be printed on paper. The image in the smart object will be printed on clear film. The clear film will be laid over the paper print. Clearly, the two have to match, and that's my problem. I want to be able to open the smart object and crop it to an identical square so the film matches the paper.
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‎May 10, 2021
03:12 PM
It's the "make edits" that's the problem. If I "open" the smart object (by double clicking) I see the original (uncropped) image. I need to crop the contents of the smart object so that it matches the main image. For example, it would be nice if I could Select All in the main image, then open the smart object and crop to the selection boundary. However, the selection does not carry over when you open the smart object.
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‎May 10, 2021
02:12 PM
I have a layer stack containing a smart object. I cropped the image, discarding unused pixels. But the smart object still contains those pixels. How do I apply the same crop to the smart object's contents?
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‎Jan 02, 2021
04:44 PM
Thank you for the references. I see now that I mis-spoke. The option I chose on the P400 was "No Color Adjustment" not "No Color Management". With No Color Management I would expect the printer to ignore the embedded profile. But since that is clearly not happening, I assume it is using the embedded Gamma 1.0 profile and converting Gray values to the printer's best estimation of how those tones should be printed. E.g., K=100 in the image will print as the printer's maximum black and K=0 will print as paper white.
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‎Jan 02, 2021
03:03 PM
I use QTR for all my "real" work (QTR is supported on P400). I have two P400's one for normal color printing with the Epson driver / Ultrachrome ink, and the other for printing with QTR and Cone Piezography inks (I make digital negatives for darkroom printing). I recently became interested in how other people print digital negatives from Photoshop, and so I decided to do some research, which led to this post. If my image is grayscale gamma 1.0, what is the difference between choosing Color and Grayscale in the print settings? Is it only meaningful if the image contains color? Or does it imply that color ink (in addition to black) will be used to print a grayscale image which has only gray tones? It is my understanding that the use of color in addition to black ink can (1) increase print density (2) make tones more continuous. So knowing the answer would be useful.
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‎Jan 02, 2021
02:52 PM
I should have mentioned that I'm on Windows. The Print Settings have a No Color Management option.
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‎Jan 02, 2021
02:29 PM
The P400 does not have ABW. It has only Color and Grayscale. Also, I selected Printer Manages Color and No Color Management.
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‎Jan 02, 2021
01:14 PM
I have a Photoshop document with profile gray gamma 1.0. The image is a "step table" of with eleven swatches evenly spaced between HSB=(0,0,0) and HSB=(0,0,100), that is HSB = (0,0,0) (0,0,10) (0,0,20) .... (0,0,90) (0,0,100) If the document profile was gray gamma 2.2, the eyedropper K values would read K = 100 90 80 ... 10 0 but because the document is gray gamma 1.0, the K values are K = 100 99 97 93 .... 21 0 I want to send this gray gamma 1.0 image to the printer (an Epson P400 inkjet) and I want the printer to print it with the K values that I give it. I don't want the printer to change the numbers, just print them as given. I know the print is going to be dark, especially in the shadows, but I want to see it that way. Can you tell me what printer settings to use? For example, will Color with "No Color Management" do it?
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‎Oct 25, 2020
08:17 PM
I think I found an answer. A 1D LUT with 256 rows from (0,0,0) to (1,1,1) is equivalent to a Photoshop curve from (0,0,0) to (255,255,255). That is, it is a linear curve that has no effect when applied as an adjustment layer. But if you change the values in any row of the LUT to some other value, it makes the curve shift up or down at that point. It's like using the pencil at a given input value to change the output value. Extend the idea to all 256 points and you have the equivalent of a 256 point generalized curve. Like the one below!  
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‎Oct 16, 2020
05:33 PM
Thank you. That's a very interesting idea. I will look into it.
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‎Oct 16, 2020
04:23 PM
I have a strange application that needs an accurate adjustment curve with more than 16 points (probably more like 40). I'm wondering if there's a workaround for the 16 point limit in the Photoshop Curves adjustment. I know that Gradient Maps can have many more stops (probably up to 100), but the stops must be placed at whole percentage values. This makes Gradient Maps inherently less precise than Curves entered with Light (0-255) display option. Just wondering.
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‎Oct 13, 2020
02:49 PM
The image disappeared out from under me before I even touched the crop overlay. This is definitely not expected behavior. It should at least wait until I click the Done button.
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‎Oct 13, 2020
01:30 PM
I have a library filter preset called "rectangular" which selects all images having a non-square aspect ratio. As I was reviewing the filter results, I selected one of the images and went to Develop module. In Develop, I selected the crop tool. As soon as I chose the 1:1 aspect ratio, the image area went blank. Back in the grid view of filter results, the rectangular image count had decreased by 1 and the image in question was no longer among the results. I later found that the selected image had been cropped square without my ever having touched the crop overlay. Maybe it's not a bug, but it's definitely surprising behavior It seems to me that, once in Develop, I should be able to make any and all adjustments, irrespective of the Library filter results from which the image was selected. Upon return to the Library module, I expect to see the image missing from the filter results if my adjustments have invalidated the filter criteria. But not until then.
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‎May 15, 2020
03:40 PM
1 Upvote
I found a workaround. If you are running the Creative Cloud desktop application on Windows, and CC is configured to run at startup, then when you start Windows, CC will run. If a new version is available, it will try to update itself. If the update fails with error 184, it creates the condition for the slow Photoshop launch. So here's the workaround: If you notice that CC has been getting the 184 error, disable automatic updates so that it will no longer try to update itself. Resart the PC. Launch Photoshop. Of course the real solution would be figure out what's causing the 184 error and fix that.
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‎Apr 20, 2020
03:09 PM
Thanks, but your reply suggests that I am dealing with two independent problems: CC Error 184 and slow Photoshop launch. Before I discovered 184 was causing the slow launch, I was directed to the same links you provided by others in this forum. But now that I have discovered that Error 184 is causing the slow launch, I'm looking for an answer that explains why it happens and what I can do to fix it.
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‎Apr 20, 2020
11:05 AM
Photoshop used to take under ten seconds to launch on my Windows 10 PC. Starting late last year, it began taking four minutes to launch. The splash screen showed that it was spending almost all of this time in the Initializing... phase. Because of ongoing problems I have had over the years with the Creative Cloud Desktop app (update failed, error 184), I tried the following experiment just now: I removed Creative Cloud from the Windows Startup menu and also turned off "Launch Creative Cloud at login" in the Creative Cloud settings. I restarted my computer, verified that Creative Cloud was not running, and launched Photoshop. Photoshop launched in under ten seconds. I suspect the following problem: when Creative Cloud runs at startup, it sees that an update is available and tries to update itself. The update fails with Update Failed, encountered issues in updating Creative Cloud. Error 184. After the error, Creative Cloud is not cleaning up after itself, and leaves something broken that causes the Photoshop slow launch. This is not a real solution, since I will need to run Creative Cloud to update apps when updates are available. I'll get Error 184, but as long as Photoshop is already running, the 184 error won't be a problem This is just a termporary workaround. The real solution is for Adobe to fix whatever is causing the 184 error, or at least to clean up after itself when the error occurs. Can anyone offer insight into this problem?
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‎Apr 12, 2020
05:26 PM
Today, after three weeks of quick launches, Photoshop went back to taking 4 minutes to launch, again hanging in Initializing... I think I know what may be causing it. Today I had to re-install the Creative Cloud Desktop app because it would not launch. After reinstalling and launching, I got the Error 184 (the app can't update itself). Shortly thereafter, I launched Photoshop and the slow launch problem returned. I have a feeling this conversation is dead since I started it in February, so I'm going to start a new one.
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‎Apr 12, 2020
03:30 PM
Thank you for the link. I needed to reinstall it. But after it launched, I got Error Code 184. Almost exactly one year ago I began getting this error every time the desktop app tried to update itself. Originally, the 184 error had a nasty side effect: it killed Windows Explorer and caused all sorts of havoc on my computer. Adobe engineers seem to have fixed that problem, but not the 184 error itself. The fix I was given was to delete or rename one or two dll's in C:\Program Files (x86)\Common Files\Adobe\CoreSyncExtension but I don't remember the filenames. I also had to kill a running process, possibly CoreSync.exe. Is this the current state of the art? Or is there a simpler, more elegant workaround for Error 184?
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‎Apr 11, 2020
06:20 PM
Today I launched the Creative Cloud desktop app (on Windows 10) for the first time in several months. The window came up quickly, but it was empty except for a spinning wheel at the center of the window The Help menu was active, and I was able to get the "About Creative Cloud" info After 3 minutes of spinning, a blue notice appeared at the bottom of the window but the wheel continued to spin. After waiting a whle longer, I relaunched. The entire scenario above repeated. I have not restarted my PC. I'll wait to see if anyone has a fix, and if not, I'll try doing that.
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‎Apr 11, 2020
04:39 PM
Thanks. There's no shortage of documentation. I have seen and read it all. Where can I download the ExtendScript Toolkit itself? The one that is described here? I need the software, not the documenation.
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‎Apr 10, 2020
05:56 PM
I have been reading Adobe documentation on scripting, and I am ready to start writing scripts for Photoshop CC. I know Photoshop well and I have experience programming web applications in JavaScript. I have spent the last hour looking for somewhere to download a SDK. If it exists, Adobe has hidden it very well indeed! Where can I find it?
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