Legend

Question

Urgent question: forum or newsgroup?

Forum|Forum|16 years ago
March 17, 2009
26 replies
4256 views

I am trying to convince Spanish speaking users "from the other side" (ex MM forums in Spanish) to post here their opinions about the changes that are almost here, but have not been succesful. All of them do not use browsers as such to access the forums, and they seem convinced that they are participating, not in a forum, but in a newgroup, housed but not controlled by Adobe. In fact, in the topic lists they are identified as "newsgroup users" while browser users are identified by their screen names.

One of the oldest and most respected participants there has just posted a message in which he states that NNTP users do not access those forums through the Adobe site, so they don't need an Adobe ID, just an email address which doesn't even have to be a real or existing one.

I find this strange, as it would discriminate against those of us using normal browser access. I cannot post in there if I'm not a registered Adobe user, and that means that at some stage I have to provide a valid email address, an identificator (the Adobe ID), and a screen name. But he insists that they don't have to register and have never done.

Could someone please clarify this matter for me?

This topic has been closed for replies.

Mark_A__Boyd

Inspiring

> And without authentication anyone can log in and post as someone else. See the messages at http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/messageview.cfm?forumid=35&catid=216&threadid=1414882&enterthread=y

I'm not sure I'm following you there. The OP in that thread was posted via FuseTalk, which requires login. The other two were posted from NNTP, but all they changed was their From: header. The rest of the headers make it clear that they likely are from the same person. At least they came from the same computer according to the NNTP-Posting-Host: header. (I don't think JC [you?] would leave his computer logged in in the wrong places)

Such spoofing is a small problem with newsgroup posting, but people doing that are easily spotted and routed out. Actually, I don't recall seeing anybody do that on the MM newsgroups. It happens in the Usenet alt.* groups sometimes, but there are all sorts of kooks out there.

john_cornicello__retired_

Inspiring

WebCrossing has an NNTP server built-in. That is why you can authenticate logins and why you can edit/delete messages. One didn't come before the other.

The FuseTalk application has a gateway to an external NNTP server. That works well most of the time--until you need to do something like delete some spam or edit a message because someone entered some personal information, or anything like that. The version of the message on the NNTP server doesn't get updated if the web version is edited. And if you delete a message from the web version the NNTP gateway sees that it isn't on the web server any longer and posts it again. It also makes all messages posted via NNTP associate to one user account. And without authentication anyone can log in and post as someone else. See the messages at http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/messageview.cfm?forumid=35&catid=216&threadid=1414882&enterthread=y

Mark_A__Boyd

Inspiring

Quite sophisticated, and thank you and Dorothy for the clarifications.

There may have been an improvement to the edit feature, though. In one of my posts from from NNTP, I left a regular newsgroup quote in by accident. I edited it via WebX and the NNTP version shows the edited version.

Of course, I may not have downloaded the NNTP messages until after I did the WebX edit, but I thought it was interesting. FuseTalk edits definitely do not make it to the NNTP server.

Mark_A__Boyd

Inspiring

Nevermind about the edit feature. I just realized that you were specifically talking about FuseTalk when you mentioned it.

FuseTalk is even worse for coders, though. It converts things often found in code snippets to its text formatting syntax, and flat out munges other parts of code. Horrible.

A

Anonymous

>If we were in the new version of the forums, I would have marked my question as "answered" at about message #5, and given points to those who contributed to complete the answer I seeked. And we would have missed all the subsequent fun... XD

It is kind of spooky, especially since the "filter" provided offers just "all threads" "open questions" and "answered questions" as options. What I want is "all threads" or "unread topics or posts".

MichaelKazlow

Legend

Mark,

Of course, it was posted by nttp. That is the most efficient method as
long as you don't need to do things like attachments (Webex nttp server
doesn't accept attachments) nor other hostly duties.

My first experience with nttp for support was with CE Software that ran
its own private nttp server as its primary internet-based support eons
ago. I thought it was the cats meow.

Mike

Mark_A__Boyd

Inspiring

Mike,

Absolutely!

My first experience with NNTP was back when I had a .mil address and cat's meow says it well. Along came that hyper text tranfer protocol thing which was cool in its own way. I was able to jump to related documents on different computers around the world without manually opening connections, logging in, etc. (Terminal).

I was curious when I started seeing [image] in the pages, and looking at the source, it was clear that things were changing. A real eye-opener when I obtained a Mosaic browser for my OS!

Sadly, the trend now seems to be to use the Web for all things Internet. Slow and full of disadvantages (at this stage). I suspect the real drive behind it, in the corporate world, is data collection and statistics. HTTP is better suited for bean counters, statisticians, and marketing departments.

Claudio GonzálezAuthor

Legend

Well, my original question has been completely answered, and I have also received plenty of additional historical information I did not require but has been enlightening and entertaining.

If we were in the new version of the forums, I would have marked my question as "answered" at about message #5, and given points to those who contributed to complete the answer I seeked. And we would have missed all the subsequent fun... XD

Mark_A__Boyd

Inspiring

And, of course, Mike's concise and accurate answer to your question was posted from the newsserver ;)

.jive-points {
display: none;
}

(Not a real CSS version. Just made it up down here in NNTP land.)

A

Anonymous

Right, I'm saying that was part of what we paid WebX to administer as part of their service. And they wrote the software to make it relatively seamless for John. It's just a box on setup pages labeled "Email list and/or newsgroup name:" that he filled in with the appropriate name. The rest was done by WebX.

Kath-H

Inspiring

>happened like magic

Bless :)

A

Anonymous

I know it's more complex in the background, what I was saying is that Web Crossing had it all set up behind the scenes to work with their software, and all John had to do was to give each forum a news group name, and the rest happened like magic.

Mark_A__Boyd

Inspiring

That "magic" leads me to believe that the NNTP server was already up
and running and, if my recollection is accurate, already being used.
You don't configure NNTP to work with HTTP, but rather the other way
around. WebX, FuseTalk, and other Web apps are configured/programmed to
communicate with NNTP servers.

Perhaps the Adobe Web forums and newsgroups all came online at the same
time.

Not that any of this really matters one way or another. Just a bit of
trivia about the history of the forum/newsgroup.

A

Anonymous

Sending out to NNTP is built into the WebX software. So the software came first. John just had to set up the newsgroup names and it was good to go.

Mark_A__Boyd

Inspiring

I'm not following that logic at all, but you may be right anyway. I probably wasn't aware of the Web forum when I started reading the NNTP newsgroups. Of course, if WebX came first, he had to do a lot more than just set up newsgroup names in the software :)

[Edit: deleted NNTP quote :)]

PJonesCET

Participating Frequently

Wasn't saying that Mozilla products are the only ones to have the feature. Its just on Mac's the only major choices of Mail Programs are: Mozilla Products, Apple Mail, or Entourage.

Mark_A__Boyd

Inspiring

Login<=>authentication, tomatoe<=>tomahto in this case.

Mozilla is certainly not unique in that feature. Nor were they the first.

Every newsreader program I've ever used allows you to enter your credentials if required when configuring a server connection. Very much...VERY much... like an email client. In fact, some newsreaders come with POP3 client capabilities built in, and some POP3 email clients also have NNTP capabilities. Not uncommon at all.

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